I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."
Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
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Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#22Great post, and a very sad story (with a happy ending).
Unfortunately, US (and others) universities applied similar policies (probably, more subtly though) up to 1970:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus...
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#23I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."
I went to a a magnet school (Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology) which does NOT discriminate against Asians in the way that so many colleges do. Last year more than 50% of students were Asian-American. This is what these colleges are trying to prevent, rather than simply wanting to benefit their own children.
I'm not sure that I approve of ANY targeted racial goals for schools, though I'm generally in favor of class-based advantages for lower-income applicants.
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#24"It was understood that since Jews represented a minority percentage of the overall population, the university would only accept that percentage into the student body. This was in line with the Soviet Union’s unofficial policy of anti-semitism in the post-Stalin era." So, quotas... are there quotas, official or unofficial, in the USA university system?
At public schools in the US, quota systems are officially illegal (UC Regents v. Bakke), but they are allowed to use admissions to encourage diversity (Grutter v. Bollinger).
In general, both public and private schools tend to over-admit minorities (in proportion to their presence in the population), so from the other perspective, are discriminating against majorities.
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#25Posted last time[1] one of these stories came around, comment applicable here: As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw away account. With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection bias. Most of them c…
Regarding immigration: I don't know if there was much selection bias as we were in the immigration queue for 10 years before being selected. The Anti-Defamation League told Bill Clinton that the situation in Russia was getting worse (1996), and he increased the annual quota of Russian Jews allowed to enter the US.
Regarding the second point: we have no more relatives in Russia, so the narrative is not meant to help anyone immigrate to the US.
As far as the story goes that Russians were equally discriminated against, and it was a case of bribery, you can take a look at my comment below of more family examples. Or you take a look at this list of Math problems that were specifically given to Jews during their admission exams into Moscow State University: http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1556 . Thanks to @Prognosticus for sending me the link!
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#26Posted last time[1] one of these stories came around, comment applicable here: As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw away account. With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection bias. Most of them c…
So, how big a problem is antisemitism in Russia, in your opinion?
I don't know. My well-off Jewish relatives in Russia don't report discrimination, but that I believe is a factor of their position or demeanor and not absence of antisemitism.
Since you asked "how big", I would say greater than zero but less than discrimination against certain other groups. These other groups include Chechens, other people from the Caucuses, people from the *stans, and gays. People in these groups are both more numerous and face worse discrimination. Non-Moscow residents are of course officially discriminated against in Moscow (Moscow residency is essentially a second internal citizenship that has been struck down by the courts but still exists in practice). Additionally 50% of the population are subjected to sexism to a significant degree.
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#27Posted last time[1] one of these stories came around, comment applicable here: As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw away account. With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection bias. Most of them c…
Some of what you say certainly fits with what Russians I have spoken with have told me. That EVERYONE was treated like crap, it wasn't limited to Jews.
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#28Thanks for posting. I just sent this to my parents who were also in the Soviet Union until we all emigrated to the US.
Here's the response from my mom:
Yes, it's typical. The only thing which surprises me that the dad's dad insisted on military in 1970 - there was an antisemitic campaign in military in 1961 and grandfather could not miss it. Usually families knew which colleges accept Jewish kids, which did not and usually there was a "plan B". There was a category of "top" colleges which ran exams in July, while all others ran exams in August, like this guy who failed in top choice in July still had option to take exams in August (like my mom who failed with Institute of mechanics and Optics in July applied for Pedagogical Institute in August, or Alik [her uncle] who was not admitted in Moscow university applied in Kharkov in August etc.) And some people who were fighting actually succeeded (like Alena [her aunt] whom they gave either 4 or 3 in math said she knows well enough to get 5, so the examiner said, "I will have to call a head of the commission", Alena said, "So call him." And started all over again. Vitya, my cousin, had the same experience: they told him his solution is wrong, he gave them another one, and one more, and they also called for the head of admissions, and she showed him the right solution - then he showed her his first solution, etc. So it's a little weird that for this family this all sounded as a surprise. It was every family experience ;-( and one of the reasons of emigration (same situation with jobs.)
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#29This is a great story. Being from an ex-communist country, I've heard numerous stories like this from my parents and their friends.
In my country the mandatory army service law was active until 2007. If you didn't get admitted to a college, after finishing the high-school you would've had to serve 1 year in the Army. You would also have to serve even if you got into college, but only for about 6 months after graduating.
Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know if anyone from the Soviet era would tell you that antisemitism did not exist. I don't know why any Russian would tell you otherwise. It always did and it does now. Russians are incredibly discriminatory, especially in bigger cities. When i was around 7 i had adults come up to me and tell me that i am worthless shit because i am half Armenian and half Russian.
Same thing happened to me, only it was in Armenia and grown-up Armenians were talking sh*t to me for being a half-Russian kid (think 1st-grade age). I wouldn't say "Russians are discriminatory", just "people from the former USSR are usually discriminatory". From my experience, in both countries, Armenia was a lot worse.
The same thing happened to me, except I'm 100% Armenian, but my native language happens to be Russian, because it was the primarily spoken language in our family.
It's just xenophobia.