Alternative fan theory that I've always chosen to believe: http://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/130it2/lord_of_...
"Fly, you fools"! That explains EVERYTHING!
Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
21–30 of 213 posts
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#22I wonder how much of the thematic blindspot had to do with the technology of the day? The books were reportedly started on soon after The Hobbit (1939ish), before flight was the dominant theater for war. Even though the books were not published until after WW2, when aerial warfare became the new front of war, it seems that Tolkien's main experience in war was the hideous ground fighting in WWI, and he himself rebuffe…
I'm not convinced. WWI was the debut of wartime aircraft, and he would have been well aware of the role airplanes had in shifting the power of that war. They were mainly used for reconnaissance and some light bombing, but it was widely publicized at the time.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#23No. The whole point of their approach was to remain undetected. Sauron would have detected the eagles presence in Mordor and converged a massive force on the location of Frodo (even 50 or 100 enemies, some nazgul etc, would have been enough to block the ability of Frodo to deposit the ring into the lava).
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#24If the eagles had flown Frodo to Mordor to destroy the ring, it would NOT have been destroyed as Gollum would not be there to bring a serendipitous end to the events. It seems reasonable to imagine that Gandalf suspected more about Gollum's ultimate role than he let on, or had some idea or hunch even that things needed to play out more organically.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#25Oh wow! That's a lot of reasoning for making a story boring.This is far from the truly interesting analysis you can make about LotR. [spoiler alert just in case] The one I like the most is the topic of why Frodo fails. When Frodo reaches Mt Doom he finally loses himself to the power of the ring and proclaims himself its master. This is both a product of his character growth and his proximity to Sauron. In the words o…
And surely Frodo's failure implies also that the eagle plan could not have worked: it did not include Gollum
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#26I wonder how much of the thematic blindspot had to do with the technology of the day? The books were reportedly started on soon after The Hobbit (1939ish), before flight was the dominant theater for war. Even though the books were not published until after WW2, when aerial warfare became the new front of war, it seems that Tolkien's main experience in war was the hideous ground fighting in WWI, and he himself rebuffe…
Air power played a prominent role in WW1, with aerial duels frequently making headlines and German airplanes bombing London [1]. Furthermore, in the inter-war period British society was obsessed with the seemingly unstoppable power of flight [2], a concern well substantiated by the Spanish Civil War [3]. Tolkien would have been keenly aware of all this by 1939.
[1] http://www.firstworldwar.com/airwar/bombers_gotha_giant.htm
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bomber_will_always_get_thro...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica#Media_repor...
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#27One does not simply fly into Mordor!
Well, consider the origin of that comment. Dunno if it's in the book, but from the movie: Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its black gates are guarded by more than just orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this. It is folly.
High-profile entry is dismissed as impractical/unlikely/impossible. Sauron has, without doubt, considered and mitigated the obvious - including, we may presume, the obvious threats of Eagles entering for various purposes. Considering various obvious options for a few days will surely be inadequate against someone of immense power having considered defenses against assault for centuries. (Akin to my problem with people who think, with a mere few minutes of untrained thought, they can outwit teams of experienced professionals operating on near-unlimited budgets.) Just because a sold reason for "it can't happen" can't be imagined in a short time doesn't mean there isn't a reason. The defending force has capabilities beyond what is known (even to omniscient readers), the risk of failing to discern and mitigate a flaw in the plan is substantial, and the cost of failure is extreme. A flying attack (which taking The Ring to Mt Doom in effect is) is just too obvious for Sauron to have not considered and prepared against.
Frodo is chosen precisely because he is as low-profile as possible: a nobody, barely 3 feet high, moving at a paltry pace, not strong enough to wield the ring.
"Well, we can't think of a good reason not to, so let's do it" is not a winning strategy. If you can't qualify & quantify the risk, you don't take it. They could evaluate the risks with Frodo, and chose to engage in asymmetric warfare.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#28If the eagles had flown Frodo to Mordor to destroy the ring, it would NOT have been destroyed as Gollum would not be there to bring a serendipitous end to the events. It seems reasonable to imagine that Gandalf suspected more about Gollum's ultimate role than he let on, or had some idea or hunch even that things needed to play out more organically.
By the time he had walked to Mt. Doom, Frodo was exhausted, weak, malnourished, and had carried the burden of the ring for a long time. These all contributed to him succumbing to its power.
If the eagles had flown him, none of those factors would be at play. Frodo could have still had the strength to overcome the ring's power and throw it into the fires.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#29I wonder how much of the thematic blindspot had to do with the technology of the day? The books were reportedly started on soon after The Hobbit (1939ish), before flight was the dominant theater for war. Even though the books were not published until after WW2, when aerial warfare became the new front of war, it seems that Tolkien's main experience in war was the hideous ground fighting in WWI, and he himself rebuffe…
I'm not convinced. WWI was the debut of wartime aircraft, and he would have been well aware of the role airplanes had in shifting the power of that war. They were mainly used for reconnaissance and some light bombing, but it was widely publicized at the time.
I agree, but I'm not saying that he was unaware or mostly unaware...I'm just saying that his lack of personal experience with the pivotal role of flight (compared to his real experience in ground campaigns in WWI) combined with the relative rarity of flight in the LOTR, might have made it an avenue too exotic in his mindset to be even worth exploring in his fictional universe, even as just a throwaway idea (such as the suggestion of, "Lets just give it to Tom Bombadil"). Flight was often used as an element of escape or last minute intervention, not as a major plot device.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#30No. The whole point of their approach was to remain undetected. Sauron would have detected the eagles presence in Mordor and converged a massive force on the location of Frodo (even 50 or 100 enemies, some nazgul etc, would have been enough to block the ability of Frodo to deposit the ring into the lava).
Please read the OP. he addresses this exact point.