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New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

nytimes.com

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Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#81

Post by iterationx »

SeanLuke wrote: post #71
iterationx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joel Skousen has an interesting analysis. North Korea attacks South Korea, the US defends South with tactical nukes. Then there is a nuclear strike on the US from Russia and China in retaliation, which might explain why the US gov is building super bunkers in the Ozarks .

> Joel Skousen has an interesting analysis. A simple visit to his website, and wikipedia page, convinces me that Joel Skousen is about as non-authoritative a source as one can possibly get on this subject. > Then there is a nuclear strike on the US from Russia and China in retaliation This is a huge jump in logic without any explanation.

Perhaps if you spent more than four seconds on his website, you might the analysis interesting, http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/threats.html

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#82

Post by Shivetya »

ihuman wrote: post #7
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #3

Wow. More juvenile posturing, or the beginning of the end for North Korea? Depends on whether anyone takes them seriously. And with a growing nuclear capability, they can't be taken not-seriously. This is suicide for them.

I agree. What I don't understand is why they are doing this. They have nothing to gain, and everything to lose.

Unfortunately I think the opposite is true and history is on their side. When haven't we or the rest of the world not caved? I remember back when Clinton was in office and Jimmy Carter did an end run on him and gave the North Koreans what they wanted.

Their economy is in the dumps, their people are starving, and they have gulags or worse throughout their country, so its not like the value other human life. Then back this attitude up with a large military which has access to conventional and other weapons, being next door to a rich and vibrant nation. Its not a good situation.

Until China decides North Korea is a danger to China and makes North Korea very aware they will take action to neutralize them North Korea will act with impunity.

The real threat to the US is that we cannot be one hundred percent sure what China will do if North Korea acts and we rush in to help South Korea.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#83

Post by 1123581321 »

ihuman wrote: post #7
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #3

Wow. More juvenile posturing, or the beginning of the end for North Korea? Depends on whether anyone takes them seriously. And with a growing nuclear capability, they can't be taken not-seriously. This is suicide for them.

I agree. What I don't understand is why they are doing this. They have nothing to gain, and everything to lose.

One theory is that KJU is proving his mettle to honor his grandfather and father, and to build support against and avoid a coup or assassination by a family member or military.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#84

Post by bdunbar »

adventured wrote: post #68
iterationx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joel Skousen has an interesting analysis. North Korea attacks South Korea, the US defends South with tactical nukes. Then there is a nuclear strike on the US from Russia and China in retaliation, which might explain why the US gov is building super bunkers in the Ozarks .

That's about the most silly analysis I've ever seen. There isn't a chance in hell Russia and China end their entire existence just to defend a war against North Korea that the North also happened to start. How do I know that? Tons of historical evidence says it would never happen. Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, the original Korean War. There have been countless proxy skirmishes over the decades. None of the…

> Nobody launched any nukes at the US.

You're right about Korea being a limited war. Both sides had protected rear areas that were vital to the war, and were careful not to step over the line.

However the USSR had only tested their first a-bomb in 1949, and their strategic delivery systems were .. minimal .. for years after that.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#85

Post by jbooth »

adventured wrote: post #65
hackerboos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Koreas are effectively a proxy war between the US and China.

Absolutely. China could dismantle North Korea in a heartbeat, by pulling all support at a minimum or telling the military junta it's over and if they want to survive at all they have to play ball. Kim would be served up on a platter the next day. North Korea is nothing but a way for China to poke the US constantly.

Eh. I'm not saying that Chinese leadership doesn't enjoy the ability to poke the US, and play that up for domestic political reasons, but indications I've seen are that they've been getting sick of North Korea's shit. Check their language in these periodic crises from the late 90s until now -- they practically sound like they're on the US's side now compared to the late 90s.

There's a more practical reason for them to hope the regime doesn't fall: it creates a refugee crisis on their border and the CCP governance model is 'stability uber alles'.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#86

Post by mseebach »

pm90 wrote: post #33
duiker101 wrote: post #23

Will someone excuse my excessive ignorance and be so kind to explain me why the DPRK is so pissed with the US? Thanks

The main reason is that the US essentially fought the Korean War for South Korea against the North, and still maintains many active military bases and thousands of troops in South Korea, especially one right in the middle of Seoul. Any attempt to invade the South would mean war with the US, thus one of the longstanding demands of the DPRK has been that the US remove all its troops from the country. Also, the US helps…

It's worth adding that while the conflict is complicated and the lead up was long, the North was basically the aggressor in the war and that the NK army was backed 5:1 by Soviet troops.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#87

Post by jbooth »

uxp wrote: post #75
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A volkswagen beetle and about 5 gallons of gas would do the trick, no?

If there is one thing that marathoning Mythbusters on Netflix has taught me its that gasoline is a poor explosive for everything except looking pretty.

I think the 5 gallons of gas is the amount it would require to drive from NK to Seoul.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#88

Post by iSnow »

arethuza wrote: post #74
iSnow wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Due to the tensions and an error in a Soviet early-warning system, it looked like the US had indeed launched a couple of rockets in a first strike. If not for Petrov's level-headed reaction, nuclear war might have started by error. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm...

That was a separate incident - just happened to be right before Able Archer.

I see, my bad.

Nice to know that we came that close to annihilation twice in 1983.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#89

Post by bjterry »

adventured wrote: post #63
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, dismantling their military regime, opening their borders and requesting help would be more effective.

Not if the aim is retaining permanent power for Kim Jong-un and the military junta that actually runs North Korea.

There is probably a Pareto improvement that could be made by agreeing to hand Kim and the other leaders almost any amount of material wealth in exchange for them stepping down and allowing South Korea to govern North Korea. It would have to be better to live in a first world nation with hundreds of millions / billions of dollars than to be the Great Leader of North Korea. I guess the fact that this doesn't happen just goes to show how much better sovereign power is than money.

Re: New Sanctions Imposed on North Korea as it Warns of Pre-emptive Nuclear Attack

#90

Post by SeanLuke »

iterationx wrote: post #81
SeanLuke wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Joel Skousen has an interesting analysis. A simple visit to his website, and wikipedia page, convinces me that Joel Skousen is about as non-authoritative a source as one can possibly get on this subject. > Then there is a nuclear strike on the US from Russia and China in retaliation This is a huge jump in logic without any explanation.

Perhaps if you spent more than four seconds on his website, you might the analysis interesting, http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/threats.html

> "More than ever, I still consider the nuclear attack on America as inevitable, both because the real axis of evil (Russia and China) are still building for that attack, and because our own government is controlled by those intent upon destroying US sovereignty and delivering our nation over to a socialist New World Order."

Classic Mormon survivalist subculture crazytalk.

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