The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb • Hacker News Board

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#81

Post by ars » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:05 AM UTC

dietrichepp wrote: post #64

ars wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my entire life I've broken exactly 1 CFL - and I was a kid at the time. And you don't have to vent your house, that's an urban legend. The mercury is elemental mercury which isn't very toxic, and extremely poorly absorbed on top of that. (The toxic mercury is organic mercury. Some elemental mercury will be converted, which is why people worry about it - but it won't be converted in your house.)

MERCURY IS TOXIC. DO NOT TELL PEOPLE THAT IT IS NOT TOXIC. Both elemental mercury and "organic" mercury are toxic (I assume you mean "organic mercury compounds", since mercury is never "organic"). The relative toxicity of mercury does depend on the compound. Dimethylmercury is exceptionally poisonous: it will go right through latex gloves, skin, and the blood-brain barrier; minute concentrations will kill you. Metall…

I did not say "is not toxic". I said "not very toxic".

The OSHA limit is 0.1 mg/m^3. A CFL has 5mg of mercury - so even if every bit of the CFL mercury stayed in a room 13x13x10 feet (which it won't since most gets absorbed by the wall of the CFL) you would still be legal. And that's for continuous exposure! Not a single event.

I can't seem to find good data on the LD50 of elemental mercury, everything is for compounds of it, but compared to everyday compounds, it's toxic - but not very.

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#82

Post by tehwalrus » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:06 AM UTC

jwr wrote: post #77

We are still in the dark ages, though. Just consider: this "bulb" has to plug into the standard 110/230V AC electrical sockets. Powering an LED is nothing like powering an incandescent bulb: you need a constant current driver delivering a precisely measured DC current that, depending on the LED, is between 300mA and (say) 1.5A. The voltage you need depends on the number of LEDs in series, but assume 3.2V per LED. If…

I agree that we need a closed-circuit DC solution for households. One efficient step-down, and then we plug rechargeable (phones, laptops, etc) in, and power LED lights off it. We still need AC to transmit power to the house, and power high-juice devices, obviously.

Presumably this already exists? Any home-hackers know who's making them?

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#83

Post by ars » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:07 AM UTC

jckt wrote: post #57

Talking just about the incandescent ("classic") light bulb's life...isn't its life limited by the policy of "planned obsolescence"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence Are there any lightbulb engineers on HN that can confirm that lightbulbs are indeed, so to speak, "made to fail"? Or is it actually really difficult to make a long-lasting lightbulb?

See what I wrote here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5329833

You can pick any longevity you like - it's a straight tradeoff of energy efficiency.

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#84

Post by aaron695 » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:09 AM UTC

asmosoinio wrote: post #35

ars wrote: post #14

Hmm, actually beats a CFL - although not by much, the CFL uses 11 watts, this uses 9.5. But the CFL costs $1, this costs $13. It lasts 3 times as long, but still - unless you really need great color accuracy (i.e. CRI), I can't see myself buying this. (I'm comparing to a CFL with the same warm color temperature.) Edit: CRI of 80! That's worse than the CFL I'm comparing it to! Why would anyone want to buy this? The sm…

How much do you pay for electricity? Over 10 years, the difference probably makes this cheaper, even with such a small difference. 2.5 Watts, 6 hours/day, 300 days/year, 10 years, 0.13 USD/kWh [2] => 7.2 USD saved in electricity [1] Count in the replacement CFL prices, 3 USD vs 13 USD, and the costs are pretty much equal. Point being: Electricity is the biggest cost. [1] right?: https://www.google.com/search?q=2.5*6*…

Maths is wrong

Where have you deducted the expected ROI on the money you've invested on the asset?

Also the numbers are to high, not many rooms are on 6 hours a day.

Electricity is actually a fairly insignificant for lighting/ power use by consumers in general. People like these things because they are easy fixes, not because they achieve much.

But I'd say the real benefits is in business and cost reductions in labour replacing light bulbs. It's the longevity not the reduced power use that has the value in commerce.

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#85

Post by FoeNyx » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:10 AM UTC

asmosoinio wrote: post #35

ars wrote: post #14

Hmm, actually beats a CFL - although not by much, the CFL uses 11 watts, this uses 9.5. But the CFL costs $1, this costs $13. It lasts 3 times as long, but still - unless you really need great color accuracy (i.e. CRI), I can't see myself buying this. (I'm comparing to a CFL with the same warm color temperature.) Edit: CRI of 80! That's worse than the CFL I'm comparing it to! Why would anyone want to buy this? The sm…

How much do you pay for electricity? Over 10 years, the difference probably makes this cheaper, even with such a small difference. 2.5 Watts, 6 hours/day, 300 days/year, 10 years, 0.13 USD/kWh [2] => 7.2 USD saved in electricity [1] Count in the replacement CFL prices, 3 USD vs 13 USD, and the costs are pretty much equal. Point being: Electricity is the biggest cost. [1] right?: https://www.google.com/search?q=2.5*6*…

The electricity hour rate will probably vary in the next 10 years. In some parts of Europe the cost will go up by more than 25% in the next 2 years.

There is also the long term benefit of lowering global consumption of electricity: probably less CO₂ rejected in atmosphere, and decreasing power outage risk in regions badly interconnected with the grid.

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#86

Post by ars » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:12 AM UTC

jwr wrote: post #77

We are still in the dark ages, though. Just consider: this "bulb" has to plug into the standard 110/230V AC electrical sockets. Powering an LED is nothing like powering an incandescent bulb: you need a constant current driver delivering a precisely measured DC current that, depending on the LED, is between 300mA and (say) 1.5A. The voltage you need depends on the number of LEDs in series, but assume 3.2V per LED. If…

24 (or 48) volts is still too high - so you would anyway need a power supply.

And go too low on the voltage and the wires become so large as to be impractical.

These types of smart active electronics are getting cheaper and cheaper. I really don't see much need to eliminate them.

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#87

Post by FoeNyx » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:19 AM UTC

Void_ wrote: post #19

Where can we get these in Europe?

I don't know for this brand, but there are Phillips or Toshiba LED light bulbs in mall for years. (caveat : not as cheap)

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#88

Post by ck2 » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:23 AM UTC

zokier wrote: post #71

ck2 wrote: post #3

This is huge if only because a LED bulb company finally put its warranty where its mouth is. Every other bulb, ie. the expensive Phillips bulb, only gives a 3-4 year warranty I'd definitely give this a try @ $10 It's also dimmer compatible which is a big plus for me with X10 control, CFL cannot dim. If this bulb does not operate for 10 years (based on 6 hours per day / 7 days per week of normal consumer use) from dat…

> It's also dimmer compatible which is a big plus for me with X10 control If you have already X10 system in place, wouldn't X10 compatibility be more ideal than dimmer compatibility?

X10 has dimmer modules. It's basically a dimmer with remote control.

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#89

Post by lucaspiller » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:35 AM UTC

FoeNyx wrote: post #87

Void_ wrote: post #19

Where can we get these in Europe?

I don't know for this brand, but there are Phillips or Toshiba LED light bulbs in mall for years. (caveat : not as cheap)

I haven't heard of those before. All I've seen on the high street are CFLs and halogen bulbs. The prices seem pretty good on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3D...

Re: The Biggest Thing Since the Light Bulb

#90

Post by unwind » Wed, Mar 06, 2013, 9:43 AM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #3

This is huge if only because a LED bulb company finally put its warranty where its mouth is. Every other bulb, ie. the expensive Phillips bulb, only gives a 3-4 year warranty I'd definitely give this a try @ $10 It's also dimmer compatible which is a big plus for me with X10 control, CFL cannot dim. If this bulb does not operate for 10 years (based on 6 hours per day / 7 days per week of normal consumer use) from dat…

Apologies, but: pet peeve alert! The Dutch electronics multinational is actually called "Philips", with a single 'L' in the middle. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips.

I often see it written with two 'L':s, I think it's mainly due to pronunciation by English speakers.