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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

wiki.ubuntu.com

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#301

Post by riotingpscifis »

vor_ wrote: post #286
tedks wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Apple buy CUPS specifically so that they could keep parts of it proprietary? They're definitely only funneling money into LLVM so they can drop their dependencies on GCC, which will probably have a net harmful effect on the free software culture.

> which will probably have a net harmful effect on the free software culture. Mind explaining how funding the development of free software hurts free software?

1) Replace GPL code with BSD code 2) Release a subset of the features to open source community

Why would Apple be so allergic to GPL unless they want the ability to close stuff? If really you think Apple would stay open if they dominated the market look at the iPhone.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#302

Post by unwind »

trotsky wrote: post #218

Did I read that correctly, there is no plan to build GTK+ bindings - they are going to qt based dekstop applications? Or do they expect gnome to port to mir? Unless they already worked that out it doesn't seem too likely as this amounts to a direct shot at them. If Ubuntu is suddenly not going to have any gtk applications available it is going to be a very foreign environment to lots of its current users.

Not sure, they do say:

    Application authors relying on Qt/QML, GTK3, XUL etc. should not be required to perform additional porting as we will work on providing Mir integration for the most prominent toolkit choices.
Maybe they've just decided to take Qt first, and that's why there's already a project for this.

I'm a bit confused, I thought GTK+ did its rendering through Cairo, which would mean that a Cairo backend is what's needed. Not 100% sure about this though, I don't track GTK+ at a low level these days.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#303

Post by Nursie »

achiang wrote: post #143
jlgreco wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems dishonest and manipulative to me. Con a bunch of people into adopting something that doesn't really fit their needs, is just shiny, so that you can use them as leverage... that is not something I am interested in. Meanwhile all of those unskilled users are not without a cost. Free software support infrastructure is not set up to handle that many unskilled users. If Canonical is going to be giving all of those p…

The entire reason why desktop Linux has been a failure is exactly because it does not fit the needs of most people. And for that audience, "shiny" is equally important as "featureful". In the modern marketplace, you can't choose either/or. It has to be both. Ubuntu wants to do both and additionally add libre. The strawman fallacy you inferred from my statement has the additional fallacy of incorrect causality. People…

Failure?

It's an incredibly useful tool, with a lot of very smart engineers contributing awesome stuff to it. It's a development platform second to none and far more capable than any other OS I know of.

Oh did you mean market share? Who cares?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#304

Post by mercurial »

tedks wrote: post #250
snogglethorpe wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let them innovate If Canonical were good at it, everybody would be saying "yeah, go for it!" But they're not. Every time they strike out on their own, they seem to end up producing overly complex, badly performing, messes, with tons of issues, that everybody hates. bzr, unity, ... The only reason people use any of their stuff is because ubuntu pushes it on their users, and people with little experience end up using…

Can you elaborate on what you dislike about bazaar and Unity? Or how Canonical is able to "force" a vcs on its userbase? I've used Unity since it was released, never had any issues, and generally think it's the best GNU/Linux window shell around. Bazaar is also ridiculously simple, and I've started using it as a front-end to every other vcs. The support for git is a little rough, but I can do in one command what git…

I don't know if this constitutes a "power user" usage pattern, but watching a colleague try to work with Unity with dual monitors was hugely amusing.

I'm curious to know what you can do in one command in bazaar that you need 4 in git to do.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#305

Post by andrewaylett »

raverbashing wrote: post #30
ihsw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't Linux idiots (whatever that means) or their cautionary tendencies, it's Canonical.

Yes The linux idiots have one glaring example: PulseAudio Throw away user experience, system stability, judicious use of CPU for what? It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly , also usually consuming more CPU than flash player

I conducted an experiment on my last laptop, having noticed PulseAudio taking up more CPU than my media player. I found, quite consistently, that disabling PA led to my media player using more CPU on its own than the sum of the media player and PA when both were running.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#306

Post by mnazim »

reidrac wrote: post #298
tedks wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on what you dislike about bazaar and Unity? Or how Canonical is able to "force" a vcs on its userbase? I've used Unity since it was released, never had any issues, and generally think it's the best GNU/Linux window shell around. Bazaar is also ridiculously simple, and I've started using it as a front-end to every other vcs. The support for git is a little rough, but I can do in one command what git…

Launchpad supports Bazaar only. That's one of the "top ten reasons" to switch to Bazaar according to the docs [1]. That said, I don't really think Canonical is "forcing" anyone besides playing the "defaults" card in the distribution they control, and even then you can simply not use the stuff is installed by default (although I think that making the desktop dependent of some applications that I may not want to use is…

Launchpad, like Github, is offering a service and that too free. It is not a valid argument. It would be like asking Github why don't they support other VCS.

> making the desktop dependent of some applications that I may not want to use

Examples please.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#307

Post by [deleted] »

reidrac wrote: post #298
tedks wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on what you dislike about bazaar and Unity? Or how Canonical is able to "force" a vcs on its userbase? I've used Unity since it was released, never had any issues, and generally think it's the best GNU/Linux window shell around. Bazaar is also ridiculously simple, and I've started using it as a front-end to every other vcs. The support for git is a little rough, but I can do in one command what git…

Launchpad supports Bazaar only. That's one of the "top ten reasons" to switch to Bazaar according to the docs [1]. That said, I don't really think Canonical is "forcing" anyone besides playing the "defaults" card in the distribution they control, and even then you can simply not use the stuff is installed by default (although I think that making the desktop dependent of some applications that I may not want to use is…

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#308

Post by mattkevan »

jlgreco wrote: post #247
achiang wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep putting up strawmen. Show me the desktop Linux equivalent of Android, not Cyanogenmod. It doesn't exist - and you can measure that failure with any number of metrics. If Ubuntu can achieve that type of success and protect the freedom of users with the GPL (instead of the permissive BSD model for hardware makers) then we will have accomplished something in the world.

You have missed the point. Show me the Android equivalent of Debian. Show me an Android project, with all of the unskilled users that come with it, that is anywhere near as organized as the Debian Project. Show me that legions of unskilled users have allowed this Android project to achieve hardware compatibility at all comparable to what Debian achieves on the desktop. Such a project does not exist . I assert that it…

Why do we want the layman to be using Linux? To give Valve more Linux customers or something?

Idiot users are toxic; anything that touches them rots.

Wow. The level of arrogance and elitism on display here is breathtaking.

This is why Linux on the desktop is irrelevant. Not the fact that it's incompatible with most mainstream software, not the fact that it's low profile or the fact that most Linux desktops look and function like Windows' retarded younger brother – but because a tiny minority of the otherwise hugely welcoming community set themselves up as some sort of entitled priesthood and actively discourage 'idiot users' from getting involved.

New users, even idiot ones, are good. Yes, they bring problems and stupid questions. Everyone has to start somewhere. But more people involved means more investment and helps challenge entrenched assumptions about how things should work. Making things shinier and more accessible does not equal dumbing things down.

Why shouldn't everyone be able to use an approachable, thoughtfully designed system that 'just works' and yet shares our values of freedom, community and open source?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#309

Post by Jach »

mnazim wrote: post #306
reidrac wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Launchpad supports Bazaar only. That's one of the "top ten reasons" to switch to Bazaar according to the docs [1]. That said, I don't really think Canonical is "forcing" anyone besides playing the "defaults" card in the distribution they control, and even then you can simply not use the stuff is installed by default (although I think that making the desktop dependent of some applications that I may not want to use is…

Launchpad, like Github, is offering a service and that too free. It is not a valid argument. It would be like asking Github why don't they support other VCS. > making the desktop dependent of some applications that I may not want to use Examples please.

But github does support other VCS!

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#310

Post by lee »

Those who are complaining that Ubuntu is diverging from most other Linux distros forget that this is the nature of open source software and competition.

Part of the success of open source software is that it's highly evolutionary. Good successful projects attract a following and get better. For this to happen, you have to have choice and diversity. There has to be competing flavors, libraries, and distros all vying for market share.

What Ubuntu is doing is great for us all. Providing more alternatives in the Linux ecosystem than just relying on X/Wayland/Whatever.

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