There is a smart way to do this and not be a complete moron like the author. I take adderall a few times a year and have been doing so since my senior year (2003) in high school and have never come close to this trainwreck. It's a simple approach: know exactly what you have to do before taking it, eat a meal before (since you will have no appetite), take them in the early morning (so you can sleep by night), and fina…
abusing unprescribed drugs makes you a "complete moron", but abusing unprescribed drugs in moderation makes you well informed. note taken.
Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
151–160 of 223 posts
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#152It really is sad.
I've been taking the extended release version for over a year now and without it I would be an unproductive wreck. I went through a full clinical eval by a neuropsychologist, and had my genome sequenced to verify that I had the specific mutations that are thought to be responsible for ADHD.
For me it has been life changing to say the least. I grew up in NYC and would take the uptown train when I was supposed to take the downtown train twice a week at minimum, I wouldn't realize this had happened until I would end up in the Bronx or somewhere the train exited the tunnel and allowed light to come through the windows and bring me back to reality. I would make these errors due to my brain being off thinking about computers, robots, books, particle physics, food, girls, music, manga, etc ... rapidly shifting from one idea to the next, never completely finishing a single thought.
It was hard for me to read. To finish projects. And I never had a job and instead chose to start my own companies.
I don't quite believe the exercise hype - I was a division I athlete during my undergrad years, and worked out harder and longer than 99% of the human population during that time - and I still had difficulty.
I decided to get help after my first year of my master. I was getting frustrated, unable to complete projects to my liking/standard, and staying up far later and working far longer to complete anything than many of my peers - and having just finished designing digital products for one of the top design firms in the world (really my first true foray into corporate America), while having trouble sitting down during meetings, and only hearing every third word that came out of my colleagues mouths, was beginning to freak me out.
so i went in. And worked through the process. I was diagnosed and confirmed and my life completely changed. Although I had a difficult time with my family (asian) who looked at me differently and refuse to this day, to talk about my condition. The pluses still out-weigh the minuses.
Adderall doesn't excite me. It calms me down. I can even sleep better since my mind is not racing 10000 miles per hour. I'm doing the best work of my life these days and couldn't be happier as I finish up my master thesis. (something i cannot imagine being possible had I not talked to someone and gotten help). I have no side-effects, and just feel "normal" when I'm taking it. And I am closely monitored by my physicians, all of whom have my best interests in mind. Sadly, this sort of support and knowledgeable/honest care is not easy to find.
I think stories like these are both helpful and harmful. Helpful at exposing the blatant misuse and misdiagnosis, and also harmful because it shows people that it's still possible to find doctor's who don't give a shit about you and will just prescribe whatever you ask for. I have people who ask me for the drug, of course, I don't hand it out for $5 or whatever because it actually helps me and doesn't turn me into some sort of incredible hulk super human like the author or other abusers. Patients and doctors should be more responsible b/c if you don't really had ADHD, then this stuff will mess you up ...
and i have no idea how to end this brain dump because well, it 2am and i'm sleepy and i have ADHD, I won't take my prescribed dose until 9am, and i have to talk about the healthcare system during my preliminary thesis defense tomorrow ... so ya ... later
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#153Interesting article on the subject of abuse. It would be more interesting to find out who the doctor was and if this woman ever received a proper clinical evaluation or a genome sequence. It seems pretty clear that she was improperly prescribed Adderall. Though they are cracking down on it much harder these days due to misdiagnosis and parents who do go pay "expensive upper east side doctors" so their kids can ace th…
These things worry me too. For those of us that Adderall genuinely helps, what do we do if some scaremongers make it (and similar stimulants) inaccessible to us? Crap. I did the math on it once and it turns out it's cheaper to make your own meth lab than continue to buy for the rest of your life. Plus, if things go south, you always have yourself covered.
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use. Do you think you might have that backwards? It probably becomes a vicious cycle / race to the bottom. You take more drugs to work longer hours and compete with your colleagues, who start taking more drugs so they can work more hours to have the edge over you...
The long working hours of many law firms existed before the widespread availability of adderall. Drugs have absolutely zero to do with it. They are merely a symptom of the underlying workaholic culture.
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#155This made me sick. I don't know what's worst: the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone, or the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her. It stinks the whole way. Using drugs to gain an unfair advantage over other people at work has unhealthy emotional side effects? Am I to be surprised by this?
> the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use. Do you think you might have that backwards? > the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone She had a substance abuse problem. She's warning others that it's a slippery slope. Show some compassion.
This is true. However, a lot of people will take away the message 'stay off adderall' whereas
(1) some people apparently benefit from it, (2) some people whom doctors wouldn't prescribe to may benefit (e.g. the mathematician Paul Erdös took ritalin, a similar drug), (3) all people who abuse drugs do so because of personality problems -- thus if she hadn't taken adderall then she may well have gotten into some other drug or obsession leading to some other addiction or disorder
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#156Interesting article on the subject of abuse. It would be more interesting to find out who the doctor was and if this woman ever received a proper clinical evaluation or a genome sequence. It seems pretty clear that she was improperly prescribed Adderall. Though they are cracking down on it much harder these days due to misdiagnosis and parents who do go pay "expensive upper east side doctors" so their kids can ace th…
> I think stories like these are both helpful and harmful. These things worry me too. For those of us that Adderall genuinely helps, what do we do if some scaremongers make it (and similar stimulants) inaccessible to us? Crap. I did the math on it once and it turns out it's cheaper to make your own meth lab than continue to buy for the rest of your life. Plus, if things go south, you always have yourself covered.
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, tone it up instead. From the comments on that article: My 3rd grade granddaughter has been put on adderall for ADD. This is really scary. It's because of people like her and her self-absorbed, nugatory account of her experiences being featured on a high-profile news journal that we drift into a world where mention of ADHD medicine usage gets you the eye-roll 'wow you druggie' judgement. She's doing a tremendous d…
As an individual who was actually diagnosed with ADHD, I have an axe to grind with a medical industry that sold me amphetamines at 15. The results were ~nugatory~ at best.
Anyhow, I'm only the second person in my extended family to not have gone to college. If I performed in school how I perform now (when I am medicated) I would have done very well in high school, I would have gone to college, and I probably would have done pretty okay.
But, then I would have graduated to the work force in 2001-2002 rather than in 1997.
do you see the problem here?
in 1997, I was able to get a programming job, essentially on enthusiasm. In 2001-2002? I would have spent considerable time unemployed, even with a degree.
(of course, that was just pure luck)
But yeah. I'm glad that the crutch is available to me now.
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But the results are the same. They're > the same for ADHD folks, they're the > same for non-ADHD folks... It's certainly worth talking about, but I'm not at all sure that's true. Our understanding of Adderall's mechanism is incomplete but our current understanding is that, in those with ADHD, appropriate doses of stimulants can boost some functions to where it would be in a non-ADHD brain. It's kind of like saying…
Does it truly affect people with ADHD differently than someone without? My understand is that this is a misconception...
For someone with ADHD, a single Adderall isn't going to make them stay up all night. It isn't going to cause them to stop eating. There is no "razor sharp infinite focus".
Instead, it just brings things up to normal. Rather than being unable to even have a chance to focus, the possibility now exists.
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
However small the chemical difference, there is an enormous practical difference. Meth can produce an intense high. Adderall, not so much. I don't have any experience with meth so I can't compare Adderall and meth directly. However, I'd compare the extremely limited "high" from Adderall with... what a person with no caffeine tolerance feels when drinking a medium latte from Starbucks. And, like caffeine, you quickly…
> However small the chemical difference, there is an enormous practical difference. Meth can produce an intense high. Adderall, not so much. This just isn't true. Adderall is several amphetamines and the drug definitely produces a high. The medical application of the drug is this rush of dopamine and seratonin allows users to focus and ignore distractions. The high is an amphetamine high, much like meth, actually. Yo…
There's no rush of serotonin. Amphetamines primarily affect the norepinephrine and dopamine transporters. They can affect serotonin transporters, but only in very high doses. (MDMA, or "pure" Ecstasy, affects primarily serotonin transporters, and has very different effects.)
The ratio of affinity for the dopamine transporter vs. norepinephrine transporter is substantially different between methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine (the principal component of Adderall). While both bind to both, methamphetamine has a stronger relative effect on the dopamine transporter as compared to dextroamphetamine.
The "classic" picture is that the norepinephrine transporter affects dopamine levels in prefrontal cortex and norepinephrine levels throughout the brain, and the dopamine transporter affects dopamine levels in the striatum. Striatal dopamine release is probably important for both the reinforcing effects of the drugs and their effects on motivation. Prefrontal dopamine release is probably important in improving focus. Because dextroamphetamine has a stronger relative effect on the norepinephrine transporter, it causes greater prefrontal dopamine release relative to striatial dopamine release, although both drugs still cause both.
So, the drugs aren't quite the same, and there's a reason Adderall and not methamphetamine is prescribed for ADHD, but you're right that a high enough dose will produce a high in either case. However, the action of the drug that produces the high isn't necessarily the (only) action that has therapeutic actions on ADHD. Atomoxetine (Strattera®), which only affects norepinephrine transporters and is comparatively non-addictive, is also effective against ADHD.
(While I am a neuroscientist, I'm not entirely up to date on the literature here, so take this all with a grain of salt.)
Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter
#160This made me sick. I don't know what's worst: the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone, or the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her. It stinks the whole way. Using drugs to gain an unfair advantage over other people at work has unhealthy emotional side effects? Am I to be surprised by this?
From your comment I assume that you only respect people who have made correct and logical choices throughout their lives, and/or people who make bad choices, bear the consequences, and don't tell anyone about them (lest they appear to be self absorbed). You are certainly welcome to only respect said people, though I hope that if you ever make a bad choice that the people around you will be more compassionate.