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Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

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Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#121
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have taken Adderall now for about a year, and while I have reduced appetite it is not all that bad, I still eat the necessary amount of food, in reality it has been helping me lose weight healthily since I stopped eating while bored ... since I am bored less and can focus on the task at hand. I take 10 mg twice daily. I can go on and off Adderall with minor issues. The only issue when I go off Adderall for a day or…

If you need to take Adderall daily in order to keep your job, then the job is not for your or your employer is pushing you too much. (However, I can understand why Adderall is necessary occasionally to meet certain deadlines.)

Why do you presume to know what is/isn't good for me, my ADHD, and my employer with only that what I have written above.

Adderall occasionally wouldn't help me complete the tasks I have to complete. I take it as the doctor has prescribed it to me. I make sure to take breaks from it (and I schedule those with work, so they know that during that week/two weeks I am going to be distracted, have trouble concentrating and it is best to let me be and bite into a hard problem and figure it all out). I have been taking the same dose for a year now, I know its effects, I know how it affects me.

I don't use Adderall as a pick-me-up, or to cram for an exam, I use it as a daily medicine because it helps me do my work. Please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't do, or that my job is not for me. I love the work I do, I enjoy working with the people I work with and learn more than I could have ever imagined. Adderall helps me through the non-exciting parts, it helps me keep focused in design meetings, it helps me keep focused on finishing the last part of the project where there is no challenge left, it helps me be able to think clearly and reason without being distracted by other projects and things I enjoy.

The only reason I think that without Adderall I would have lost my job is that it allowed me to do all those other tasks that were not interesting that still need doing. A worker that can do the hard tasks but leaves projects unfinished is useless. When a worker can't even stay focused long enough on work to be a participant in a meeting regarding new features/design that is a problem, especially when writing new software. I can learn new technologies and pick things up almost instantly, I can see my code, see how things fit together, but once the hard part is done and the rest is just rote coding, my mind goes onto new and better things. Adderall lets me focus on writing good API documentation, it lets me focus on designing the last 10% of a library to be excellent.

I don't know how to explain it to you. You have your notions of Adderall and how it should be used, and I doubt a comment from a fairly faceless person will persuade you one way or another. What I do know is that Adderall has helped me tremendously, and has helped me accomplish things I didn't think I was capable of before.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#122
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what you said atomoxetine is a new age sleeping drug. Not a focusing ADHD drug.

Atomoxetine has different effects in different parts of the brain. In the motivational centers it promotes a sense of tiredness, which tends to wear off after several weeks. In the frontal lobes it increases the action of dopamine, promoting focus and persistence.

The proficiency exchange isn't worth it with those side effects.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the results are the same. They're > the same for ADHD folks, they're the > same for non-ADHD folks... It's certainly worth talking about, but I'm not at all sure that's true. Our understanding of Adderall's mechanism is incomplete but our current understanding is that, in those with ADHD, appropriate doses of stimulants can boost some functions to where it would be in a non-ADHD brain. It's kind of like saying…

Does it truly affect people with ADHD differently than someone without? My understand is that this is a misconception...

Well, it's probably safe to assume that at least some of the effects are the same for ADHD and non-ADHD users. Stimulants affect pretty much the whole brain; probably much more of the brain than merely the part(s) that differ between those with ADHD and those without ADHD.

(To be clear, I'm not a medical professional)

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and the amphetamines do wonders for physical work. You feel fantastic and capable. Amphetamines in particular provide a bit of a euphoric boost. In general, amphetamines are going to make you feel pretty damn good, although coming down might be unpleasant sometimes. I have to caution people to not do exert themselves, as they figure out that they can go workout at the gym like mad. I'm not s…

Ugh, I have hated Methylphenidate, it was really close to ruining my life. It made me feel angry and depressed. I hated the world and every single moment after taking it for some time. Even off of it I felt it semi-permanently affected my brain. I gave Adderral a shot, but again it is quite an unstable drug. Mostly because of it's a Dopamine Uptake Inhibitor. And that usually causes unstable Dopamine levels, meaning…

I tried switching to Strattera and ended up with some serious sexual dysfunctions and nearly lost my job (at a company I founded!) because I had to wait two months before I could say for certain that it didn't work for me. So buyer beware.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#125
Ive been taking adderall for a bit over 2 years now, and the important part about taking adderall is that you are supposed to do things like sleep every night, eat food during the day, and drink plenty of water, otherwise your tolerance takes over. This is true for people with adhd as well.

The thing is, if you are taking adderall because it "super charges" you, you are taking it for the wrong reasons. People with adhd (like myself) have to take adderall so that we can compete on a level playing field. There is nothing we can really do to self motivate and study. Without my meds I can not retain the information that I read. Without my meds I cant motivate myself to sit down and program because I cant concentrate and conceptualize the model im trying to write in code.

Adderall can be an invaluable tool for somebody who doesnt stand a chance without it, but it can take control of somebody who doesnt have a good enough reason to maintain self control and moderate their usage. The adhd mindset is a very awkward and uncomfortable feeling. Abusing our medication means we have to go back into that mindset and it sucks, therefore its easier to not let it become a craving addiction.

Also the zombie feeling the kid was talking about, is due to the fact that he is taking too high of a dose. Either that or he would be better off on ritalin or strattera. Each specific case of adhd is somewhat different and the underlying cause may be served by a different treatment due to the difference reactions the drugs have in the brain. (Adderall increases dopamine and prevents it reuptake. Ritalin, just prevents the reuptake, etc).

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#126

The US refuses to admit that the real drug problem are prescriptions. The effects of prolonged adderall usage have not been studied and I can't imagine how it interacts with other medications. It's a schedule II narcotic with a high similar to cocaine. Keep your kids off of it.

I realize you're probably trolling, but just in case..

The 'high' of adderall is not even remotely similar to cocaine.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#127

The comments to this article mainly focus on the medical benefits and side effects of Adderall. I don't want a larger truth to get lost here... While I've been prescribed Adderall for part of my adult life, and feel Adderall has benefited me, I'd like to say that there's far more to successful ADHD treatment than medication: - Proper environment - Getting enough exercise - Getting enough sleep - Support and understan…

You're absolutely right.

John Ratey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ratey), the professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who wrote Driven to Distration, recently published a book called Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain (http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-B...).

Spark details how high-intensity cardio (like sprints or interval training) put your brain chemicals in balance in part by generating BDNF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-derived_neurotrophic_fact...), which as Ratey describes, it's like "Miracle-gro" for the brain.

Last year my stress levels were getting out of control from working too much. At the time I was running at least two miles every day so it's not like I wasn't exercising. But then one day I changed from running a couple miles to running 50-yard sprints, as fast and as hard as I could push myself. The first day I only ran four sprints, but I felt euphoric the rest of the day -- the best I had felt in years. So I tried it again a couple days later, and sure enough it worked again -- I felt amazing.

So then I had to find out why this worked -- why a few sprints were so much more effective than running several miles. I started Googling and eventually found Ratey's book -- it explains the entire biochemical process of what's going on and why sprinting works.

It's an eye-opening read. Each chapter covers how high-intensity cardio affects things like stress, anxiety, depression, ADHD. I have ADHD but haven't taken anything for it in years (since I was in college), and I can attest that sprints not only fixed by stress levels, but my ADHD symptoms were almost non existent.

Here's a key point that Ratey makes throughout the book that completely changed my perspective on things -- he says that instead of thinking of exercise as something you should do to look good and build a healthy body, you should instead think of exercise as the key to building a healthy brain:

"We all know that exercise makes us feel better, but most of us have no idea why. We assume it’s because we’re burning off stress or reducing muscle tension or boosting endorphins, and we leave it at that. But the real reason we feel so good when we get our blood pumping is that it makes the brain function at its best" (http://www.sparkinglife.org).

In the book's introduction he goes on to say, "Building muscles and conditioning the heart and lungs are essentially side effects. I often tell my patients that the point of exercise is to build and condition the brain."

In fact the brain exercise routine he recommends is similar to a weight workout routine, in that you have to push yourself hard one day, and then take a day off to let your brain recover, just like in weight training. Another key is when you sprint, always put everything you have into it. Run as fast and as hard as you can so you are constantly pushing your body and your brain past their limitations -- this is the key to growth.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the results are the same. They're > the same for ADHD folks, they're the > same for non-ADHD folks... It's certainly worth talking about, but I'm not at all sure that's true. Our understanding of Adderall's mechanism is incomplete but our current understanding is that, in those with ADHD, appropriate doses of stimulants can boost some functions to where it would be in a non-ADHD brain. It's kind of like saying…

Does it truly affect people with ADHD differently than someone without? My understand is that this is a misconception...

Drugs like Adderall tend to increase Dopamine and Norepinepherine. The idea being that people with ADHD tend to not have enough of these chemicals. When they take drugs like Adderall, they feel better. If they take too much, or someone who already has enough of these chemicals takes them, they tend to become irritable and have trouble sleeping.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#129
To others in similar situation, either considering it or on it, or just taking some other stimulant like caffeine, or are just tired all the time:

* If you have ADD and it is working for you and you are happy, ignore this shit and do what you need to do.

* If you have ADD and take it, but you don't like how you feel while you are on it, talk to your doc and have him/her help wean you off of it or find a different dose or med.

* If you are fat or not but don't get enough exercise, please get exercise and stop eating fast food and drinking any kind of soda (diet is just as bad). I am overweight now and have been normal weight before when I've exercised regularly and it made a big difference both cognitively and with energy, etc. I need to do that again. I learned the hard way not to diet though. It worked but it is true what they say; you gain it back +10 lbs (or more).

* Replace soda with coffee or tea, even if you hate them. I really hated them. I feel much better not drinking diet sodas constantly. Try to eliminate caffeine if you can.

* Try eliminating/limiting aluminum (drinking from cans, using hair products with aluminum, etc.). (May be unnecessary, but lower your Alzheimer's risk.)

* Try taking daily vitamins (Centrum, etc.), Fish/cod oil pills. Consider taking a baby aspirin each day if you are 40+. Don't overdose on daily recommended intake, even when sick! Some things can be really bad. Don't overdose on ginko, etc. either!

* There is nothing wrong with wanting to be your best, but you'll be your best when you aren't cheating and hurting yourself, and that is as good as you need to be. Even if you think you will get shot or people will die if you don't take stimulants, you can stop and it will be better- for everyone.

* Talk to an ENT about sleep apnea. Losing weight is key no matter what, maybe stop drinking water and eating before bedtime, and no blue light or monitors or T.V. for a few hours before your 8-9 hours sleep. But after you do all that, if you snore or don't dream regularly and feel like crap and hate your job, get help.

If you are like me, you have done a lot of this because you think you deserve it. I feel on a regular basis like I don't deserve to have what I have and that I'm a failure. In many ways, I am a failure; but mostly because I'm doing it to myself. I eat too much. I don't exercise. I hate my job. I think I should die. I feel like I need the food so my brain won't get distracted by being hungry. I feel like I don't have time to exercise. I feel like it is my fault that I hate my job. But, all that is crap. I need to take care of myself, and so do you! Just go on a short walk tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. Eat 1/2 as much as normal if you eat too much. Drink less caffeine. Talk to your doc about changing your meds or anything at all that you're worried about. Get a hobby and get outside more. Make friends that do healthy things. Get a job where you can live healthier and work a normal workweek.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#130
post #87
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an individual who was diagnosed with ADHD, but whose parents refused to acquire medicine based on superstitious 'but isn't adderall just basically cocaine?' grounds, I assure you I've got an axe about 3,000x bigger than yours to grind at individuals like those who wrote this NYTimes article. I'm sorry to hear that you were diagnosed by an incompetent psychiatric physician, but I would hope you don't use your misfo…

While this is an op-ed being run by a web tabloid, there's no superstition or anti-science on display that I can sense. So let's find some quieter common ground: A class of prescription psychoactive drugs are increasingly being used by tens of millions. They substantially alter the motivation systems of the human brain, have a poorly understood method of action, are extremely easily and inexpensively sourced from the…

> have a poorly understood method of action

Where did you get this from? Using psychostimulants to treat ADHD is one of the most researched treatments in psychiatry. We've been prescribing Adderall for almost 100 years now. We know it works, and it works well when prescribed correctly.

Either way, if you want drugs to get up in arms about, better choices are SSRIs and atypical antipsychotics. Those are the drugs with poorly understood mechanisms of action that are given to way too many people.

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