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The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

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Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#281

Post by derleth »

runn1ng wrote: post #253
bm1362 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superficial explanation: BGP is the border gateway protocol- you can think of large infrastructure providers as being huge networks that are connected through 'border nodes'. BGP is the protocol it uses to negotiate routes into each other's networks, each provider advertises to the other provider what routes it has available. A common way to make a country go dark is by simply removing the BGP routes advertised for t…

All right... but who is faking this? Who can be faking this and how and how does it change the traceroute?

Anyone can make their machine emit any packets they want it to. That's the fundamental principle in play here.

How it works is simple: ICMP ping, which is what most traceroute implementations work on, just works based on computers sending packets with their address information in response to a ping request.

If a computer that's really at IP address 10.0.5.23, for example, sends ping responses saying they're from IP address 10.2.0.93, a traceroute program will keep pinging that computer until it either gets a reply that says it's from the correct IP address or it decides the trace is futile.

A computer can lie as many times as it wants and create an arbitrarily long path that has no basis whatsoever in reality. Anyone who wants to do a good job of the lie would simply look at the Internet's routing information, which is (by definition) publicly available, and figure out which sequence of IP addresses they'd have to fake replies from. That's what's been done here, and almost a full month before April Fool's Day, no less.

Doing a better job would involve programming the computer to handle all network traffic with varying speeds, to fake the increased travel time the laws of physics would impose on the progressively longer paths it's faking. The Pirate Bay people apparently didn't bother with this part.

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#282

Post by mikeash »

pyre wrote: post #277
breck wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. (And if you're curious there are some great sources online including one interesting account recently was Eric Schmidt's daughter's blog.) - Millions of people who have families and I'm sure are pretty happy even if their government sucks. And this is all that really matters at the end of the day. - Those wide streets look pretty darn cool - People look healthy (compared to obesity in the U.S.) - Those mass…

| I thought it was really neat that when the | power goes out in the subways, everyone is | prepared with a flashlight. Smart populace! Or you could just look at it as, "this happens so often that the people expect it, and are not complete idiots."

Putting stuff like "frequent power outages make public transport unreliable" in the "pros" column is why I can't figure out whether or not this is satire.

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#283

Post by Turing_Machine »

notahacker wrote: post #273
Turing_Machine wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It was comparing the USA to every other developed country, where the USA ranks very poorly." http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM It does? Doesn't Europe have at least one violent ethnic conflict going on at any given time? Usually several?

If the best example of current US performance relative to other developed countries you can think of is "killed fewer people than other protagonists in last century's World Wars" (which is essentially what your cited stats show) you may as well not bother. n.b. I'm sure Rummel would grudgingly admit that the US is far worse than any other developed country for committing acts of "democide" this century . In fact it's…

Yeah, I rank governments that murder millions of their own people pretty low on the scale of "human rights". Sorry.

Edit: Most of those people weren't "killed in World War II". They were murdered. By their own governments.

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#284

Post by arthulia »

kamjam wrote: post #271
arthulia wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody here is saying that. The US treats a lot of people very reprehensibly, but comparing living conditions in the US to living conditions in NK is like comparing a Mercedes to a pogo-stick.

I understand both your comments, I didn't bring up the US, other people did and I am just responding to that. My comment is not about comparing anything to anything, it's about the throw away comments that "x isn't as bad as y so we're not doing too bad" when instead of pointing fingers we should be looking inward towards our own flaws. People in glasses houses and all that. (Yes yes, it's still not as bad a NK but y…

The point of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5320630 was to address the fact that you were putting words in my mouth.

You said "So what are you saying, it's ok as long as the US is not as bad a NK?"

That statement is completely orthogonal to what I was trying to say. Nowhere did I ever imply that something is okay just because it's not as bad as something else. That whole concept is completely nonsensical. If Australia became as bad as NK and then NK grew to be even worse than it was before, Australia wouldn't suddenly be doing something "okay" just because NK has set a new bar for despicable. Hopefully nobody in this thread is so stupid that they couldn't deduce that on their own.

What I was saying is that you're a complete asshole if you think the US is "like NK". That sort of comparison is completely inane and extremely insensitive to actual North Koreans actually being executed because their father was caught devising a plan to escape the country or whatever. None of them can leave. The US is NOTHING like North Korea and I wish ill will upon everyone who makes the comparison. I hope you all sit on a thumbtack or something.

The day no citizens can leave the US is the day I will acknowledge a similarity between the US and NK.

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#285

Post by Turing_Machine »

grecy wrote: post #257
Turing_Machine wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It was comparing the USA to every other developed country, where the USA ranks very poorly." http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM It does? Doesn't Europe have at least one violent ethnic conflict going on at any given time? Usually several?

> It does? Bottom of the list for everything that matters. http://www.oecd.org/statistics/

"Bottom of the list for everything that matters."

Except for "first choice to which to immigrate", oddly.

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#286

Post by Turing_Machine »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #285
grecy wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does? Bottom of the list for everything that matters. http://www.oecd.org/statistics/

"Bottom of the list for everything that matters." Except for "first choice to which to immigrate", oddly.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM

It's called "voting with your feet".

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#287

Post by grecy »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #283
notahacker wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the best example of current US performance relative to other developed countries you can think of is "killed fewer people than other protagonists in last century's World Wars" (which is essentially what your cited stats show) you may as well not bother. n.b. I'm sure Rummel would grudgingly admit that the US is far worse than any other developed country for committing acts of "democide" this century . In fact it's…

Yeah, I rank governments that murder millions of their own people pretty low on the scale of "human rights". Sorry. Edit: Most of those people weren't "killed in World War II". They were murdered. By their own governments.

> Yeah, I rank governments that murder millions of their own people pretty low on the scale of "human rights". Sorry.

You seem only interested in comparing the US to undeveloped and developing countries, which is not a useful comparison.

Why not compare the US to developed countries?

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#288

Post by notahacker »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #283
notahacker wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the best example of current US performance relative to other developed countries you can think of is "killed fewer people than other protagonists in last century's World Wars" (which is essentially what your cited stats show) you may as well not bother. n.b. I'm sure Rummel would grudgingly admit that the US is far worse than any other developed country for committing acts of "democide" this century . In fact it's…

Yeah, I rank governments that murder millions of their own people pretty low on the scale of "human rights". Sorry. Edit: Most of those people weren't "killed in World War II". They were murdered. By their own governments.

You responded to a comment that the US ranked poorly in relation to 'every other developed country' with an outdated casualty count implying the US government might have been less deadly to human life than Germany, Japan and the UK before 1945 (and also less deadly than a few non-developed countries since then). I'm pretty sure the same set of statistics points towards the US government causing more deaths than other developed countries since 1945, which is why I thought it probably didn't help your case. Sorry.

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#289

Post by grecy »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #286
Turing_Machine wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bottom of the list for everything that matters." Except for "first choice to which to immigrate", oddly.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM It's called "voting with your feet".

..and by capita it's barely 20% of Australia's net immigration growth.

Re: The Pirate Bay is now hosted in North Korea

#290

Post by kragen »

dvdhsu wrote: post #191
kragen wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea says, "The total number of prisoners is estimated to be 150,000 to 200,000." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States says, "According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2010." It seems like the United States is about an order of magnitude…

Comparing the actual number of prisoners in two countries isn't very useful since the two countries have different populations. It would be a little like comparing the food consumed each day by everybody in China, compared to the same number in the US. China will consume more food, simply because they have more people! You can't conclude that Chinese people must be 2-3x fatter just from numbers that don't take the po…

Karla Homolka raped and killed 50% of the people who fell into her power. Adolf Hitler tortured to death only some 10% of the people who fell into his power. Nevertheless, I think it is defensible to assert that Adolf Hitler was "a bigger domestic human rights violator" than Karla Homolka, since she only had three victims, while he had some eleven million.

North Korean rulers are less effective in that North Korea remains a small, poor, weak country; consequently North Korean rulers are only able to incarcerate 0.7% of a much smaller population. They would be much bigger human rights violators if they were able to establish control over a larger territory that included more people, as the US government has over the past century and a half.

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