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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#61

Post by gosu »

sneak wrote: post #42
zamnedix wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Linux and I don't even use a graphical environment most of the time because all it does is slow me down. (When I do use one, it's Ratpoison.) The most effective Linux developers I know work similarly. I believe this is a large cause of us being "senselessly married to terrible in-group traditions and the status quo". I don't know if you're calling all Linux users idiots or what, but I consider Linux idiots as t…

I am not calling all linux users idiots. I made a picture for you to clarify: http://i.imgur.com/ulGCde2.png (not to scale.)

Brutal.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#62

Post by colanderman »

kunai wrote: post #34
dfc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not Debian?

Debian stable tends to be too stable for my tastes; Fedora is much more bleeding edge. It's just a matter of preference, really.

Debian testing is pretty great. I personally use a mix of testing, unstable, and experimental on my desktop, and a mix of stable and testing on my server.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#63

Post by obviouslygreen »

dfc wrote: post #28
kunai wrote: post #6

I suppose it's time to switch to Fedora, now, even though I've been holding out for as long as humanly possible. This just pushes me over the edge.

Why not Debian?

+1; this was my thought as well. The problem, though, is that I can no longer say to people, "you should try Linux! Ubuntu is predictable, stable, and easy to use."

I don't know if Debian has a similarly friendly desktop distribution, but unless they do, I'll now point people to Linux Mint. Granted... I think this has been a better choice since Unity came into the big picture, not because it's bad, but because it's unfamiliar.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#64

Post by hazov »

For those that are curious this is a good diagram by Alison Chaiken about the two major ways of the architecture of Linux graphics:

http://she-devel.com/Linux_Android_Graphics_Stacks.svg

I believe Mir will just be a custom tailored SurfaceFlinger, I just do not understand why Canonical will not use SurfaceFlinger.

EDIT: Maybe because SurfaceFlinger is built with OpenGLES in mind? I don't really know.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#65

Post by jlgreco »

raverbashing wrote: post #54
jlgreco wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only person in the world who has never had anything but a pleasant experience with PulseAudio? The first time I noticed that I was using it, I had already been using it for a year...

Let me ask you some questions then: - How often do you reboot your computer - What audio softwares you use the most For me, PA crashes around once a week (and this is with the latest version I tried), or just plain stops working (like muting the sound, garbled sound, etc) Not to mention the delay that happens while switching songs in mplayer for example. Use ALSA and song switch is instantaneous.

> - How often do you reboot your computer

Once every two or three months, when I remember to apply updates.

> - What audio softwares you use the most

Only flash (youtube, primarily. Also youtube's html5 player probably, I haven't paid much attention to that) and mplayer. A few years ago, XMMS2. I used to use an XMMS2 client I wrote for music, now I just use some bash scripts and mplayer; I can't say I've noticed any delay while switching songs with mplayer or XMMS2.

When I play music from my laptop through my raspberry pi connected to my TV with pusleaudio, then I notice an audio delay. That is the only sore spot pulseaudio has ever presented me.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#66

Post by mercurial »

jlgreco wrote: post #38
raverbashing wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes The linux idiots have one glaring example: PulseAudio Throw away user experience, system stability, judicious use of CPU for what? It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly , also usually consuming more CPU than flash player

Am I the only person in the world who has never had anything but a pleasant experience with PulseAudio? The first time I noticed that I was using it, I had already been using it for a year...

No issue on a couple of machines. Running with a call to start-pulseaudio-x11 from my .xsession, works fine. I believe running it as a system daemon is not recommended, though.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#67

Post by signed0 »

caycep wrote: post #27

Also - kind of a noob question but: my assumption is all the recent ubuntu controversy is over ubuntu desktop. Does this affect the ubuntu server distro at all? Especially since I am trying to learn how to create a well provisioned ubuntu server vm for use with linode deployments...

It shouldn't, Ubuntu Server doesn't currently include X.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#68

Post by chao- »

jlgreco wrote: post #38
raverbashing wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes The linux idiots have one glaring example: PulseAudio Throw away user experience, system stability, judicious use of CPU for what? It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly , also usually consuming more CPU than flash player

Am I the only person in the world who has never had anything but a pleasant experience with PulseAudio? The first time I noticed that I was using it, I had already been using it for a year...

My most recent attempt to use PulseAudio (as it came via Ubuntu) had the quirk of not activating the headphone jack when something was inserted. It dutifully turned off my speakers, but no sound was available elsewhere.

I previously had stock Debian on the machine, and everything was working fine. A half day's effort was put into toying with ALSA configs that Pulse was deferring to for whatever driver choices it made. Dozens of help articles or threads where everyone else in the world could proclaim "Thanks, that fixed it for me!" left me with less functionality than I started with.

The only thing Pulse has ever done right for me was was help to record some loopback audio on an otherwise-crippled sound card.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#69

Post by lmm »

jlgreco wrote: post #38
raverbashing wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes The linux idiots have one glaring example: PulseAudio Throw away user experience, system stability, judicious use of CPU for what? It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly , also usually consuming more CPU than flash player

Am I the only person in the world who has never had anything but a pleasant experience with PulseAudio? The first time I noticed that I was using it, I had already been using it for a year...

No, there are a decent chunk of users for whom it works fine. Maybe as many as 95%. But there's also a substantial number of users for whom it introduces major problems - which would be more forgiveable (at least to yours truly) if it provided any visible advantages over existing systems.

(After a few months of trying to make pulse work I left for FreeBSD, which works beautifully and avoids a lot of linux's change (seemingly) for the sake of change)

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#70

Post by jjcm »

kunai wrote: post #39
acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightl…

Standards are great and all, but holding on to those standards is what's keeping back the UX of linux. Gnome3 is familiar, but very dated. X is supported by all, but it's a tangled mess that everyone hates.

Yes Ubuntu is straying from the pack, but I'd rather have them stray and the rest follow when they find something good then have the entire linux community sit in the same place they have been for years. Regardless of what path Ubuntu takes, I think it will be good for the linux community to have that diversity.

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