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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

wiki.ubuntu.com

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#31

Post by kunai »

chao- wrote: post #17
kunai wrote: post #6

I suppose it's time to switch to Fedora, now, even though I've been holding out for as long as humanly possible. This just pushes me over the edge.

I'm much the opposite: I keep giving Ubuntu a shot, only to find myself disappointed by GNOME, Unity, and the other usual suspects of the DE world. With no need for Unity & Friends, I just use stock Debian or Crunchbang. I'm rooting for Canonical to do well with this so that I might finally be able to switch to using Ubuntu in order to get a well-supported, well-integrated, targeted-by-most, "Fast and Fluid" Desktop…

I do agree with you on the well-supported and well-integrated part. Ubuntu has the polish and ease of use of OS X with the great hardware support of (nearly) Windows, with the solidity of a steadfast GNU/Linux foundation. But whenever I hear about a new development in the Canonical world, it's always about something that appeases consumers rather than power users (which Ubuntu has been targeted at). For developers who constantly need to dive down into the OS, something like Sabayon or Fedora seems to fit better with their endless modularity. Besides, it would be nice to try a non-Debian distribution for a change.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#32

Post by BruceIV »

caycep wrote: post #23

The other possibility - I just saw an article on phoronix noting the adoption of the Android window server layer (SurfaceFlinger or something like that) on ubuntu mobile. Not familiar at all with android underpinnings, but would that be another alternative to Mir? i.e. more modern window server, actively developed by Google dollars, etc?

Current Ubuntu Phone is built on top of SurfaceFlinger, the aim with Mir is to replace it.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#33

Post by acabal »

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration stuff. (Which is still necessary in Ubuntu, regardless of what the "it just works for me" people say.)

Maybe this is the kick in the pants Linux needs to increase adoption. But I would much rather know GNU/Linux, not Ubuntu. Now Ubuntu is standing alone with Compiz, Unity, Upstart, Launchpad, and Mir, all pretty fundamental pieces of the core system. In a decade, will switching from Ubuntu to Debian be as big of a culture shock as switching from Windows to Linux?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#34

Post by kunai »

dfc wrote: post #28
kunai wrote: post #6

I suppose it's time to switch to Fedora, now, even though I've been holding out for as long as humanly possible. This just pushes me over the edge.

Why not Debian?

Debian stable tends to be too stable for my tastes; Fedora is much more bleeding edge. It's just a matter of preference, really.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#35

Post by jlgreco »

pilgrim689 wrote: post #10

I don't understand all the negative reactions. Canonical is recognizing various problems in making GNU/Linux mainstream. They are then innovating at a deeper level (fixing root causes rather than duct-taping) to ultimately attempt to really attract the layman to a mobile or desktop GNU/Linux distro. Devs don't need to target Mir if they don't want to, Linux users can switch to another Debian if they don't like it, an…

> the Layman discovers that Linux can possibly be just as shiny as Mac OS.

Why do we want the layman to be using Linux? To give Valve more Linux customers or something?

We should let them be. Laymen will invariably be better served by Microsoft or Apple, trying to win them over in some sort of misguided drive to "win" market-share seems foolish. Linux should focus on it's niche, and Microsoft and Apple theirs.

This market-share envy makes no sense to me. Does Artic Cat stare with envy at Ford's userbase and expend effort trying to get suburban parents to drive their kids to school on snowmobiles? That would just be silly.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#36

Post by zamnedix »

sneak wrote: post #16
pilgrim689 wrote: post #10

I don't understand all the negative reactions. Canonical is recognizing various problems in making GNU/Linux mainstream. They are then innovating at a deeper level (fixing root causes rather than duct-taping) to ultimately attempt to really attract the layman to a mobile or desktop GNU/Linux distro. Devs don't need to target Mir if they don't want to, Linux users can switch to another Debian if they don't like it, an…

If Linux idiots weren't senselessly married to terrible in-group traditions and the status quo, it wouldn't have taken 20 years (or Canonical) to replace the clusterfuck that is X.

I use Linux and I don't even use a graphical environment most of the time because all it does is slow me down. (When I do use one, it's Ratpoison.) The most effective Linux developers I know work similarly. I believe this is a large cause of us being "senselessly married to terrible in-group traditions and the status quo". I don't know if you're calling all Linux users idiots or what, but I consider Linux idiots as the people who use Ubuntu and Unity and don't have any idea whats going on underneath. They obviously aren't going to be doing any replacing of X.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#37

Post by zamnedix »

jlgreco wrote: post #35
pilgrim689 wrote: post #10

I don't understand all the negative reactions. Canonical is recognizing various problems in making GNU/Linux mainstream. They are then innovating at a deeper level (fixing root causes rather than duct-taping) to ultimately attempt to really attract the layman to a mobile or desktop GNU/Linux distro. Devs don't need to target Mir if they don't want to, Linux users can switch to another Debian if they don't like it, an…

> the Layman discovers that Linux can possibly be just as shiny as Mac OS. Why do we want the layman to be using Linux? To give Valve more Linux customers or something? We should let them be. Laymen will invariably be better served by Microsoft or Apple, trying to win them over in some sort of misguided drive to "win" market-share seems foolish. Linux should focus on it's niche, and Microsoft and Apple theirs. This m…

I agree. This is why I dislike Ubuntu. It constantly tries to appeal to Mac and Windows users.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#38

Post by jlgreco »

raverbashing wrote: post #30
ihsw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't Linux idiots (whatever that means) or their cautionary tendencies, it's Canonical.

Yes The linux idiots have one glaring example: PulseAudio Throw away user experience, system stability, judicious use of CPU for what? It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly , also usually consuming more CPU than flash player

Am I the only person in the world who has never had anything but a pleasant experience with PulseAudio? The first time I noticed that I was using it, I had already been using it for a year...

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#39

Post by kunai »

acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings

Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightly more open OS X, which isn't good at all.

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