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Teach kids to farm, not code.

kimburgess.info

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Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#101

Post by randomdata »

Mz wrote: post #93
randomdata wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving the equipment around is the fun part, but not the real work that goes into the business. Farming is actually quite challenging. A recent problem I remember having on my farm: Soil is full of wet lumps of clay, unsuitable for planting, cultivators are not breaking them up and you have a few day window to fix the problem before it gets too late into the season to plant the crop. What do you do? I actually agree…

Honestly, that sounds to me like "Oh, god. What would happen if everyone could drive?" Er, people would have more individual choice. But we would still need buses and stuff anyway. (And you will always have some non-drivers.)

Coding was taught in school in my day and we didn't all turn out to be programmers, so I think that is obvious.

However, the previous poster suggested that there is no need for more professional farmers, so there is no need to teach farming. By extension, he seems to be saying that when we have enough programmers in industry, there will be no need to teach programming anymore.

And pushing people into an industry does come with dangers. When I was a student we were pushed into teaching. Today, I have friends who went with that push and are still on the job hunt many years later because so many others did the same.

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#102

Post by aroberge »

edw519 wrote: post #78

I don't think we should encourage anyone to do anything. We should discourage them. Let me explain... I take my example from this traditional practice of Rabbis: never accept a convert until they have been turned away twice before. Make them make 3 attempts to show their determination. Why? Because Judaism is hard. If they're not committed, they'll either give up or do just enough to satisify the minimum requirements…

And that's how you keep women away from computing. Yes, let's continue the practice that have lead our industry to lack diversity.

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#103

Post by Mz »

randomdata wrote: post #101
Mz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, that sounds to me like "Oh, god. What would happen if everyone could drive?" Er, people would have more individual choice. But we would still need buses and stuff anyway. (And you will always have some non-drivers.)

Coding was taught in school in my day and we didn't all turn out to be programmers, so I think that is obvious. However, the previous poster suggested that there is no need for more professional farmers, so there is no need to teach farming. By extension, he seems to be saying that when we have enough programmers in industry, there will be no need to teach programming anymore. And pushing people into an industry does…

And providing no direction also has dangers.

My dad grew up on a farm. He decided the military was easier. He got to sleep an hour later and, when no one was shooting at you, the work wasn't hard. I am an environmental studies major. I think it is still important to understand our relationship to the land, regardless of how you pay the bills. A lot of people really don't these days. And I think it does cause problems.

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#104

Post by cpressey »

XorNot wrote: post #87
randomdata wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving the equipment around is the fun part, but not the real work that goes into the business. Farming is actually quite challenging. A recent problem I remember having on my farm: Soil is full of wet lumps of clay, unsuitable for planting, cultivators are not breaking them up and you have a few day window to fix the problem before it gets too late into the season to plant the crop. What do you do? I actually agree…

Coding practice scales. Farming does not. If you have a smartphone, you have (potentially) a programming platform. We can't simply give everyone on the planet a few acres of farmland to get to grips with the challenges of farming.

I dunno. There are vast patches of ocean that are going pretty much unused right now.

(Yes, I know that's still science-fiction, but is it really that much more of a stretch than the AI/robot/automation "software will eat the world" firm-belief that you see daily on HN?)

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#106

Post by Surio »

coldtea wrote: post #52
patrickaljord wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, this is a real low for HN. Are you actually saying that the only thing computing has done for the world is better porn delivery and better commerce? Wow. Do you have any idea how we managed to decode our genome so fast? Any idea that every science labs including maths have computers to test their hypothesis and solve their equations at such a huge scale and speed no human being could possibly dream to match? How…

> Ok, this is a real low for HN. Are you actually saying that the only thing computing has done for the world is better porn delivery and better commerce? Wow. Do you have any idea how we managed to decode our genome so fast? Any idea that every science labs including maths have computers to test their hypothesis and solve their equations at such a huge scale and speed no human being could possibly dream to match? Ho…

@coldtea:

I understand you very well. I also agree with you. But at this point in human history, this is just a lost debate. Better minds have fought this but lost!

http://www.economist.com/debate/overview/186

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#107

Post by chimpoutt »

funny how the fairly obvious concept of resource scarcity, which probably underlies the father's post, goes unnoticed by most hn posters. i guess a natural affinity for technology and deep personal investment in learning to control it goes hand in hand with this insane whig mentality

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#108

Post by xymostech »

jmduke wrote: post #61
rorrr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe computer programing is a good way to teach logical thinking. Sociology, Philosophy and Literature are better alternatives That makes no sense. I've taken literature, I've read hundreds of books on my own. Most of them are full of illogical things. At best they are OK to teach morals, not logic. Philosophy is closer. Computer programming is pretty much pure logic and problem solving. The only better…

> That makes no sense. I've taken literature, I've read hundreds of books on my own. Most of them are full of illogical things. At best they are OK to teach morals, not logic. Not trying to be snarky, but what level literature classes did you take? I was an English major for a few semesters and I found that there were a league of differences between an introductory course which was little better than reading somethin…

Yes, but we're not talking about encouraging people to become an English major, we're talking about introducing people to these subjects. Do you think people would learn more logical thought doing a year of coding or a year of reading?

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#109

Post by Turing_Machine »

wazoox wrote: post #65
Turing_Machine wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only thing we know for certain is that the way we live now is totally unsustainable in the long run" We "know" this how, exactly? Malthus was saying the same thing in 1798. Paul Ehrlich was saying the same thing in 1968. They were both dead wrong. "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970's and 1980's hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon…

Malthus was exactly right, but he couldn't anticipate the coming industrial revolution and the explosion of energy availability through fossil fuels. There may be an equivalent revolution looming, but I can see no sign of it. For all purposes, Malthus could be right 200 years late. Most people seem to stick to "the system has worked for 350 years, so it must be able to go on indefinitely".

"There may be an equivalent revolution looming, but I can see no sign of it."

Plenty of material here: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/index.html

Re: Teach kids to farm, not code.

#110

Post by jasonlotito »

edw519 wrote: post #78

I don't think we should encourage anyone to do anything. We should discourage them. Let me explain... I take my example from this traditional practice of Rabbis: never accept a convert until they have been turned away twice before. Make them make 3 attempts to show their determination. Why? Because Judaism is hard. If they're not committed, they'll either give up or do just enough to satisify the minimum requirements…

Except you don't have to become a chef to learn to cook.
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