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The Rise Of The Artist

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Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#131

Post by nsomaru »

qzxt wrote: post #50

This talk of "right-brain" revolution has become so popular that no one even realizes the fundamental irony of it all. The fallacy that the "creative" arts have been under appreciated in society is the largest piece of bollocks I've ever heard. I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding…

This. But you contradict yourself slightly. Your main point:

>>>>There is no dichotomy between science and the creative act.

Well, my distillation thereof at least.

But then you go on to say:

>>>> STEM is important to know in the same way humanities and "creative arts" are important in that they are ways to help you understand the world. Simple as.

Now: 'Ways to help you understand the world' A 'way of understanding the world' is a conditioning, a particular mode of thinking. Usually they require training. An "objective" observer watching a tribal ritual will find the whole ordeal it as meaningless as an "objective" observer who is watching scientists operating a lab. To understand this is scary for a "man of science/math" and it drove me to tears when it hit me from the sky.

As any consellation, the utility of science/math in predictive capabilities gives them a "mere" superiority (please bare with me, I reveal my inner fears here), but they cannot (IMHO) either be claimed more superior to the other because they both stand equally as conditionings. Those greats who discovered the truths of Science had great creative capability, and capacity for communication of profound ideas through elegant vehicles for the appreciation of mankind.

To illustrate: You cannot distil drawing to pure motor skill. This is an over-simplification, "the arts deal in the particular, the individual and the personal while the sciences deal in the general, the universal and the collective". Yet both describe the same phenomenon, one in abstract, the other in concrete, but both mere images compared with the current moment (now), which alone has the airs of Reality.

If I may play my final card: we should perhaps beware of the importance we place on these pursuits, because while they are the current paradigm, we certainly (IMHO) do not tap the entire range of human potential. The question which plays, to me: which came first, me or the world?

It is an interesting one to ponder.

Thank you for suffering my thoughts.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#132

Post by [deleted] »

melling wrote: post #32

Learning to draw has been on my todo list for quite some time. I've started reading "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" and I bought a Wacom tablet. I can just never seem to find the time. I think I need to find a class (Manhattan anyone?) so I can dedicate the time. It's easy enough to Google any computer language or system and learn at least the basics in a few weeks. Unfortunately, learning to draw seems like…

[deleted]

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#133

Post by eshvk »

melling wrote: post #32

Learning to draw has been on my todo list for quite some time. I've started reading "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" and I bought a Wacom tablet. I can just never seem to find the time. I think I need to find a class (Manhattan anyone?) so I can dedicate the time. It's easy enough to Google any computer language or system and learn at least the basics in a few weeks. Unfortunately, learning to draw seems like…

I too would love to draw. I am in San Francisco and going through Andrew Loomis's books on my own requires discipline. Any tips on where to start ?

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#134

Post by Uchikoma »

qzxt wrote: post #50

This talk of "right-brain" revolution has become so popular that no one even realizes the fundamental irony of it all. The fallacy that the "creative" arts have been under appreciated in society is the largest piece of bollocks I've ever heard. I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding…

One of the best HN comments ever.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#135

Post by specialist »

c1u wrote: post #125
zanny wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the time was probably in 1970. While you have a much larger audience today, and computers have kicked the artistic potential of individuals into overdrive, I think the main factor in a healthy arts economy is a wealthy society. The America of the 70s hit around its peak wealth per person - it has been going down ever since. I don't think the advances in artist productivity trump the fact people make significa…

Not sure what you mean by "wealth per person", but pretty much everything is significantly better than it was in 1970. The average North American is significantly wealthier today than they were in 1970. Compare an average car from 1970 and an average car today. Today's econo-boxes are Space Shuttles compared the caveman-cars of 1970 (Ford Pinto?). Both cost approx the same in inflation-adjusted work-hours. Think abou…

He meant inequity.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#136

Post by oakenclast »

Good article. As we build products and services, the art direction, design, and visual appeal become more and more important in order to stand out. And most people spend the bulk of their time on the web consuming content. Where does that content originate? In the mind of an artist, composer, writer, designer, or videographer. As we seek to generate better and better content, these roles will become increasingly important.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#137

Post by msandford »

nsomaru wrote: post #131
qzxt wrote: post #50

This talk of "right-brain" revolution has become so popular that no one even realizes the fundamental irony of it all. The fallacy that the "creative" arts have been under appreciated in society is the largest piece of bollocks I've ever heard. I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding…

This. But you contradict yourself slightly. Your main point: >>>>There is no dichotomy between science and the creative act. Well, my distillation thereof at least. But then you go on to say: >>>> STEM is important to know in the same way humanities and "creative arts" are important in that they are ways to help you understand the world. Simple as. Now: 'Ways to help you understand the world' A 'way of understanding…

>A 'way of understanding the world' is a conditioning, a particular mode of thinking. Usually >they require training. An "objective" observer watching a tribal ritual will find the whole >ordeal it as meaningless as an "objective" observer who is watching scientists operating a lab. >To understand this is scary for a "man of science/math" and it drove me to tears when it hit me >from the sky.

They might find both situations to be equally meaningless, however one gives people the power to understand the natural world; the other does not. The great progresses our world has seen have largely been done by folk engaging in scientific processes - not tribal rituals. Watson & Crick discovered the shape of DNA in a lab, not around a fire.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#139

Post by egypturnash »

dhimes wrote: post #129
egypturnash wrote: post #40

I'm an artist. Honestly I'm not gonna hold my breath for this GIANT SOCIAL CHANGE where ART IS IMPORTANT!!!! to happen. Right now pretty much all creative media that are digitizable are passed around online. Music, movies, comics, still art - if it's not painfully obscure, you can probably get it for free on the bittorrents. Hell, if it's painfully obscure, you can also probably get it for free. Maybe you'll tell you…

Rambling here, but there seems to be some similarity of artists' plight and programmers' plight. One of the "problems" with art is the low barrier to entry. I've known a lot of people who were 'artists' who didn't really work at anything solid but rather spent some time emoting when the mood struck them then tried to capture that emotion in some sort of sketch or painting or poem. (I also know artists who are working…

One of the "problems" with art is the low barrier to entry

I used to work in animation. Most people in animation will tell you that it takes you about five years to go from "kid who likes to draw" to "someone who's worth employing in an entry-level job and teaching how to REALLY do things".

As the person who wants the blog with the mouseover widget, I don't know shit about design or art. If I'm buying art, how do I know what's good? How do I know what's worth paying $300 for and what's worth paying $30000 for?

It's a lot EASIER to start to figure this out IMHO. Everyone has eyes, everyone can look at art and say "I like that" or "I don't like that". If you're looking for web design graphics, look at someone's portfolio, does it look good? Hooray, maybe you'll hire them. Code, on the other hand? Nobody but other programmers can look at it and say "this is beautiful/ugly".

It gets harder once you get into the GALLERY art world, where you have a culture that eschews representation and raises up stuff that makes people say "My three-year-old could do that". Honestly I don't understand that stuff either, I am quite happy to be a "lowly" commercial artist who mostly draws sf/fantasy comic books.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#140

Post by dhimes »

egypturnash wrote: post #139
dhimes wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rambling here, but there seems to be some similarity of artists' plight and programmers' plight. One of the "problems" with art is the low barrier to entry. I've known a lot of people who were 'artists' who didn't really work at anything solid but rather spent some time emoting when the mood struck them then tried to capture that emotion in some sort of sketch or painting or poem. (I also know artists who are working…

One of the "problems" with art is the low barrier to entry I used to work in animation. Most people in animation will tell you that it takes you about five years to go from "kid who likes to draw" to "someone who's worth employing in an entry-level job and teaching how to REALLY do things". As the person who wants the blog with the mouseover widget, I don't know shit about design or art. If I'm buying art, how do I k…

Yes, the gallery stuff is difficult. I am working with someone who is trying to crack it. She's someone who works very hard, has developed her own (recognizable, and sometimes featured) style. Still, galleries are tough.

I think my point is that, as an untrained person, I can look at something and say, "I like that." But, how do I know that I like the right stuff? Maybe it doesn't work with the message surrounding it (does that even make sense?). I have no idea how to judge that. How do I know who does?

For the coding analogue, I don't think it's "pretty/beautiful" code (except by proxy). Suppose I write something for you that shows off the art that you want to sell. This is a unique app to you (let's say)- Your plan is to generate traffic by blogging about art, and have your stuff tactically displayed throughout to prompt people to buy it. I build the app, you click on it and it works exactly the way you think it should.

Now, you take the app, integrate it into your site, and stick on adwords because you need to make some short-term cash while you iterate your long-term strategy. But my coding sucks, and my script doesn't play well with adwords, and your site fails in a way that you can't see- perhaps you don't get the credit for the clicks you actually generate.

Mind you, I'm not claiming to have answers (I wish I did). But it may be helpful to compare and contrast the plight of artists with that of other professions that are self-identified. When I was growing up, car mechanics were among those professions also. What creates distinction?

Maybe there are two types of distinction to consider: professional prestige and financial success. Some authors, for example, have high professional prestige but you can't find their work at Hudson News (airport book store). Others are quite the opposite.

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