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The Rise Of The Artist

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Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#91
post #63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding off about STEM, at schools people are still talking more about funding "the arts"." From what I understand, if you are a math teacher you virtually have a guaranteed job at many, many highschools across the nation. If you're an art teacher, go…

If you're talking about the economic prognosis of art, I'd like to direct you to the world of high-end sports cars. There are many people who can afford to buy and maintain them in this world. Not all of them do. Just like many people can afford to buy works of art, but not all of them do. Why? Because one doesn't really need a sports car, just like one doesn't really need an art piece. The author's essay isn't one o…

If ever a time comes when one could sustainably make money selling art

Now is that time.

Poetry is another thing altogether, but more visual artists are making more money right now than they ever have at any other point in history.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#92
post #86
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Far, far fewer want to be an art major and try to survive as an artist (or even an art teacher)" Are you discounting the multitudes that study fashion design and graphic design? The ones that pile on at RISD and New School? Julliard? At this point I feel you should specify what you consider an artistic pursuit "As far as math goes, maybe not all that many kids want to be mathematicians, but plenty do take a fair bit…

"Are you discounting the multitudes that study fashion design and graphic design? The ones that pile on at RISD and New School? Julliard? At this point I feel you should specify what you consider an artistic pursuit" RISD is a very small school. Only 2,282 students total. According to [1], they had 835 admissions, with a 34% acceptance rate. If my math is right, that makes for 2,455 applicants. Julliard is even small…

"RISD is a very small school. Only 2,282 students total. According to [1], they had 835 admissions, with a 34% acceptance rate. If my math is right, that makes for 2,455 applicants."

I'm afraid you're missing the point. The point is that those who want to study art will study art. In addition many don't just study "art" in the traditional sense of making paintings. They study some applicability of art whether it's design, architecture, etc. Why? Well the same reason more people become programmers and not computer scientists, or engineers and not theoretical physicists. Theory only appeals to some people

"But how much math did they take by the time they make it through high school math? Maybe 9, 10, or even 12 years of math. Which is probably an order of magnitude more than they have years of art"

Again, I'm going to have to ask you to be specific with your definition of the "creative arts" because it seems your gripe is that we are teaching kids math instead of drawing in school; to which of course the appropriate response is school is for learning, not for doodling. Just like you should have a certain level of reading capacity, you should also have a certain level of reasoning capacity. This is the bare minimum one should have. So if your gripe is about the amount of math taught, well, I hope you take that same gripe with history, literature, geography, and even PE. Furthermore, art classes are offered as electives and are free to be utilized by students who want to take them.

"Of those, I'd say Nursing and the more sciencey fields like Biology, Computer science, Psychology, and maybe some Political science need math. The others not so much. Of course, out of these, Computer science is the most math-heavy. Incidentally, according to this[5], Stanford's most popular major now is Computer Science"

Seriously, what point are you trying to make? It seems more like you're disgruntled that math is relevant to more spheres of life than art - however it is that you are defining that. Furthermore, noting the dearth of CS grads at Stanford is like noting the dearth of engineers at MIT (or blackjack players ;) ). What do you think the school is famous for? In any case, the author of the essay's point has nothing to do with who is studying what because if it were he'd be complaining about social science, humanities, and business majors. His essay is about the demise of creativity - however he defines that. Furthermore, as a relation to my first post, noting that one should learn science before one has an opinion about it, it seems it would be beneficial if you followed that. Just because one reads a "science" subject does not mean they will learn math, especially not Biology and Psychology. As a matter of fact, many CS grads get away with only calc 1. And to be clear, until you get past calc 4, you're not really doing "math", just numeric manipulation - which itself isn't trivial.

To be clear: it's not about how many areas of life find math beneficial. As a matter of fact, that is the point. Despite the overwhelming potential for analytics to transform the world, despite the new knowledge to be gained STEM has not been culturally relevant till now. Now is when it is most painfully obvious that he who understands the world holds the power. It used to be he who holds the purse strings, but thanks to the litany of these technologies that we're talking about, it's becoming less so (though not fast enough). The important questions in the world are/have been/ are being asked, and not many of them involve "self-expression". Knowledge of Science and Math add a whole new dimension to our exploration of the world and people are just taking notice. That is the point. The journey that STEM has made from esoterica to becoming a full participant in the cultural discussion. The idea that we can even consider STEM a cultural activity. Smashing that barrier that keeps people assuming that STEM people are these little weird people with their irrelevant subjects and threats to human existence and starting to see it as a part of the human experience like any other. That's what I'm talking about. That's what the author of the essay doesn't get. That's why I keep volunteering to teach kids math and physics on my own dime. So of course, arrogantly determining, from an old world view of the subject, that STEM is a mechanistic chore best left for uncreative robots is not only very annoying but very unproductive. I'm sure you're very passionate about art, and in a perfect world, we would all have the things we love be recognized both culturally and economically. But antagonizing an entire field just because one's field isn't getting the limelight is not a productive way to go.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#93
post #87
post #50

This talk of "right-brain" revolution has become so popular that no one even realizes the fundamental irony of it all. The fallacy that the "creative" arts have been under appreciated in society is the largest piece of bollocks I've ever heard. I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding…

We have more people who graduate with degrees in dance than we do people who graduate with degrees in mathematics. This is not true. Dance programs are extremely small and one can join by audition only. The U of MN only has about 10 dance majors per year. In contrast they graduate about 100 math majors per year. I know this because I'm from MN and majored in math, and my girlfriend majored in dance. You can verify ac…

my bad man. been up too late, I meant theater and performance. From the link http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/11/col...

"In 2009 the U.S. graduated 89,140 students in the visual and performing arts, more than in computer science, math and chemical engineering combined and more than double the number of visual and performing arts graduates in 1985."

As for the museums, unfortunately kid science centers, imaginariums, and aquariums aren't science museums.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#94
post #93
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have more people who graduate with degrees in dance than we do people who graduate with degrees in mathematics. This is not true. Dance programs are extremely small and one can join by audition only. The U of MN only has about 10 dance majors per year. In contrast they graduate about 100 math majors per year. I know this because I'm from MN and majored in math, and my girlfriend majored in dance. You can verify ac…

my bad man. been up too late, I meant theater and performance. From the link http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/11/col... "In 2009 the U.S. graduated 89,140 students in the visual and performing arts, more than in computer science, math and chemical engineering combined and more than double the number of visual and performing arts graduates in 1985." As for the museums, unfortunately kid science ce…

As for the museums, unfortunately kid science centers, imaginariums, and aquariums aren't science museums.

My estimate was only including institutes accredited by the American Association of Science and Technology Centers. They definitely do consider imaginariums, kid science centers and aquariums to be in the same class as science museums.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#95
post #34

What websites do people here suggest if one did want to learn to draw?

Whilst I don't condone this articles sentiment I have used these sites in the past for learning to draw (digitally).

If you like Photoshop:: Free http://ctrlpaint.com

These guys are amazing:: Paid http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/

and others:: Free http://www.proko.com/videos/

http://theroundtablet.com/

Some inspiration:: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?870-Journey-of-a...

http://www.deviantart.com/

Probably the biggest factor stopping you from teaching yourself something is your own motivation.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#96

I'm an artist. Honestly I'm not gonna hold my breath for this GIANT SOCIAL CHANGE where ART IS IMPORTANT!!!! to happen. Right now pretty much all creative media that are digitizable are passed around online. Music, movies, comics, still art - if it's not painfully obscure, you can probably get it for free on the bittorrents. Hell, if it's painfully obscure, you can also probably get it for free. Maybe you'll tell you…

If some dude with bunny ears stops by, that was me.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#97
>For the past few centuries, society has richly rewarded strong systems thinkers, logical, analytical, objective people such as computer programmers who build software, engineers who build bridges, lawyers who write contracts, and MBAs who crunch numbers.

No, it hasn't.

Maybe it looks that way from your office.

But singers, actors, entertainers and athletes have been more than handsomely reward and esteemed.

Computer programmers? Not so much. Just that we needed more of them than we need actors or athletes.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#98

Picture a writer. You've seen him countless times in tv shows and movies. Brow furrowed, pencil gripped tight between teeth, hunched over a typewritter, tearing pages out and throwing them into an overflowing waste basket, staring at the ceiling praying for inspiration. Picture a developer. Brow furrowed, hunched over a keyboard, the room is dark but he glows from the light of the monitor, a pile of empty mountain de…

I don't think you can compare coding and writing so closely. I don't know about you, but I've never thought of coding as involving much creativity . Or is your point that good writers and artists and such are not actually being creative?

>I don't think you can compare coding and writing so closely. I don't know about you, but I've never thought of coding as involving much creativity.

You know that you are in the forum created by the "Hackers and Painters" guy, right?

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#99
post #91
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about the economic prognosis of art, I'd like to direct you to the world of high-end sports cars. There are many people who can afford to buy and maintain them in this world. Not all of them do. Just like many people can afford to buy works of art, but not all of them do. Why? Because one doesn't really need a sports car, just like one doesn't really need an art piece. The author's essay isn't one o…

If ever a time comes when one could sustainably make money selling art Now is that time. Poetry is another thing altogether, but more visual artists are making more money right now than they ever have at any other point in history.

I think the time was probably in 1970. While you have a much larger audience today, and computers have kicked the artistic potential of individuals into overdrive, I think the main factor in a healthy arts economy is a wealthy society.

The America of the 70s hit around its peak wealth per person - it has been going down ever since. I don't think the advances in artist productivity trump the fact people make significantly less money than before, and buying art of any form (including entertainment) is still a luxury.

Hopefully the best is yet to come - if we can get a fabricated / automated food revolution, and automated housing, and automated raw materials mining / gathering in the next few decades, besides the fact most people won't have non STEM / artistic / law / business work to do, there would be more luxurious wealth to go around.

I guess it could go either in the direction of everyone goes destitute as a concentrated few own the automated means of production, or government intervention means everyone has the lower tiers of the hierarchy needs covered without straining oneself, leaving everything else to creative pursuits.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#100
Coding allows me to be hugely creative. It is a power tool. Ok, you can be creative with drawing. However the value of working software is often a lot bigger than a drawing.

He is right be creative. But coding and being creative go hand in hand.

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