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The Rise Of The Artist

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Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#71

Post by tracker1 »

gnosis wrote: post #59
qzxt wrote: post #50

This talk of "right-brain" revolution has become so popular that no one even realizes the fundamental irony of it all. The fallacy that the "creative" arts have been under appreciated in society is the largest piece of bollocks I've ever heard. I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding…

"I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding off about STEM, at schools people are still talking more about funding "the arts"." From what I understand, if you are a math teacher you virtually have a guaranteed job at many, many highschools across the nation. If you're an art teacher, go…

Well, maybe, just maybe, there are more people who want to be art teachers, than there are math teachers.. and in that, the positions are relatively hard to fill.. There are also more jobs at Walmart than in Education.

The financial disparity of "art" is that there is only so much room for people to excel and you have to be very good... only the top 1% will ever gain any recognition... There are plenty of schools out there dedicated to the arts... there are also schools dedicated to science.

From the financial perspective, nothing is stopping anyone from picking up a pencil and paper and drawing, or dancing to music. YouTube etc has given rise to quite a few self-starters. The same goes for computers... Except with computers the financial barrier to entry is a little higher. Just the same, there's a number of articles, books, blogs, etc that will help you learn if you take the initiative.

Not having something in a classroom never stopped someone with initiative from learning something. Have some.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#72

Post by sliverstorm »

angrycoder wrote: post #26

Picture a writer. You've seen him countless times in tv shows and movies. Brow furrowed, pencil gripped tight between teeth, hunched over a typewritter, tearing pages out and throwing them into an overflowing waste basket, staring at the ceiling praying for inspiration. Picture a developer. Brow furrowed, hunched over a keyboard, the room is dark but he glows from the light of the monitor, a pile of empty mountain de…

I don't think you can compare coding and writing so closely. I don't know about you, but I've never thought of coding as involving much creativity.

Or is your point that good writers and artists and such are not actually being creative?

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#73

Post by gnosis »

qzxt wrote: post #63
gnosis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I voluntarily teach math at a school here in MN, so i get some insight into what's going on at the schools and the fact is, while the politicians and corporations are sounding off about STEM, at schools people are still talking more about funding "the arts"." From what I understand, if you are a math teacher you virtually have a guaranteed job at many, many highschools across the nation. If you're an art teacher, go…

If you're talking about the economic prognosis of art, I'd like to direct you to the world of high-end sports cars. There are many people who can afford to buy and maintain them in this world. Not all of them do. Just like many people can afford to buy works of art, but not all of them do. Why? Because one doesn't really need a sports car, just like one doesn't really need an art piece. The author's essay isn't one o…

"as far as being a professional artist, well guess what; when I was a kid I wanted to be a poet."

You were certainly not representative of the typical American kid.

"If ever a time comes when one could sustainably make money selling art, then I'm sure many artists and even non artists will flood the market."

I'm not. Not until they can make a better living at it than most other professions.

The sad fact is that not only is making art looked down on in this society (as "emo", or "gay", or as not serious or worthwhile), but most people are not interested in expressing themselves artistically (partially as a result of the education system, and partially because of social attitudes towards artists and art).

Maybe as kids, a minority of Americans enjoyed an art class here and there, but they probably never dreamed of creating art for a living -- even if it somehow could earn them a decent wage (which it can't now.. not even remotely).

So I don't think even economic parity with other respected professions would suddenly flood the market with artists. Not until societal attitudes and the education system changes pretty radically. Until then, people will still want to go in to a more respectable and "achievable" career path.

Sure, if there's suddenly a swarm of artist billionaires like there has been of dotcom billionaires, then many money-hungry people will swarm in to the art field (as they have in to the startup industry). But I for one am not holding my breath.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#74

Post by [deleted] »

rdouble wrote: post #69
goldfeld wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's more of an issue of simple market dynamics of demand and availability than you care to paint it? Every other kid wants to do a liberal arts major, but how many want to do math? How many americans, in fact, because most I see are driven immigrant individuals taking up this baton so many americans drop in favor of studying philosophy. Both are equally important, yet not equally coveted. And that results in…

Nobody in America drops a math major to study philosophy. A more likely scenario is someone who can't handle the coursework to get a business degree so they end up majoring in communications.

[deleted]

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#75

Post by tracker1 »

gnosis wrote: post #70
goldfeld wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's more of an issue of simple market dynamics of demand and availability than you care to paint it? Every other kid wants to do a liberal arts major, but how many want to do math? How many americans, in fact, because most I see are driven immigrant individuals taking up this baton so many americans drop in favor of studying philosophy. Both are equally important, yet not equally coveted. And that results in…

"Every other kid wants to do a liberal arts major, but how many want to do math?" Liberal arts major as such is quite different from an art major. Many kids do want to maybe be an English or History major and then teach. Far, far fewer want to be an art major and try to survive as an artist (or even an art teacher). As far as math goes, maybe not all that many kids want to be mathematicians, but plenty do take a fair…

Funny, in my late teens, I was interested in philosophy, politics, religion, and government/law. My interest in philosophy wasn't as a career path... just an interest I had.. I was also interested in art/design... which is how I wound up falling into programming (which paid a lot better, and I had a talent for).

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#76

Post by qzxt »

gnosis wrote: post #70
goldfeld wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's more of an issue of simple market dynamics of demand and availability than you care to paint it? Every other kid wants to do a liberal arts major, but how many want to do math? How many americans, in fact, because most I see are driven immigrant individuals taking up this baton so many americans drop in favor of studying philosophy. Both are equally important, yet not equally coveted. And that results in…

"Every other kid wants to do a liberal arts major, but how many want to do math?" Liberal arts major as such is quite different from an art major. Many kids do want to maybe be an English or History major and then teach. Far, far fewer want to be an art major and try to survive as an artist (or even an art teacher). As far as math goes, maybe not all that many kids want to be mathematicians, but plenty do take a fair…

"Far, far fewer want to be an art major and try to survive as an artist (or even an art teacher)"

Are you discounting the multitudes that study fashion design and graphic design? The ones that pile on at RISD and New School? Julliard? At this point I feel you should specify what you consider an artistic pursuit

"As far as math goes, maybe not all that many kids want to be mathematicians, but plenty do take a fair bit of math on their way to becoming engineers, programmers, doctors, and scientists. They all certainly take far more math courses than art courses."

No, actually beyond basic high school math many people never touch math again. Not even calculus. You talk about the ones on their way to becoming engineers and such. That's like complaining that people at chef school take more cooking classes than astrophysics classes. You talk about engineers, programmers, and scientists like everyone's just lining up at the door to become one.

"few artists take many math courses, but there are far fewer art students than there are students of professions that rely on math and need a decent education in math to graduate."

See the chefs and astrophysics above. A further counterpoint is that there are more students who graduate college who take a cultural "creative" course than there are students who take math. And like you've alluded to, many who even bother to touch calculus are the ones who are required to.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#77

Post by rdouble »

angrycoder wrote: post #26

Picture a writer. You've seen him countless times in tv shows and movies. Brow furrowed, pencil gripped tight between teeth, hunched over a typewritter, tearing pages out and throwing them into an overflowing waste basket, staring at the ceiling praying for inspiration. Picture a developer. Brow furrowed, hunched over a keyboard, the room is dark but he glows from the light of the monitor, a pile of empty mountain de…

Programming these days isn't really like what you describe, unless perhaps you are an indie game dev. Most software development nowadays requires extensive collaboration with other programmers, interacting with a lot of non-programming people and building on top of existing systems, rather than creating something from scratch.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#78

Post by zeruch »

I'm not sold on this rallying cry, and I say that as both an artist and former volunteer staffer of DeviantArt. There will always be paces for systems brainiacs and for aesthetic wizards. The two broad categories are not mutually exclusive, and in my opinion actually overlap in a lot of ways.

I have worked in high tech for 15 years, and have consistently found some of the most technically adept, logical thinkers to also be closet creatives (usually in music, but also in visual and performance arts). These people synthesize the left/right brain output into something better than just leaning one way or the other.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#79

Post by zeruch »

jaequery wrote: post #19

anyone can learn to code. but can anyone really learn to draw?

Yes. Drawing is muscle memory/dexterity. Drawing/painting is a physically trainable skill.

Creativity however, is something innate (or at least a by-product of the nature/nurture of the person) and can be expressed compulsively regardless of the technical acumen of the pencil-wielder.

Re: The Rise Of The Artist

#80

Post by chatmasta »

Or, instead of focusing on "becoming an engineer" or "becoming an artist," you could realize that both require immense time investments and are equally deserving of respect. Instead of disregarding artistry, try developing your own artistic talent and learn to respect the craft so complementary to our own.
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