How We Treat Pets in America • Hacker News Board

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#51

Post by tjr » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

Falling3 wrote: post #37

tjr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my own past anecdotal experiences, I favor adopting a dog from as young as possible (~8 weeks), to endeavor to have more influence over how it turns out. Most shelter dogs that I've encountered in my area are a year or more in age. Large-scale breeders and shelters are not the only two choices; I adopted my most recent dog from a family on a farm. Perhaps in an ideal world, no more dogs would be born until a…

I'm generally in favor of blaming the consumer. Markets respond to pressures. If there were no market for dogs (especially pure-bred dogs), we wouldn't see so many breeders out there. I'm not giving the breeders any sort of free pass, but I've got to ultimately lay the blame at the foot of the consumer. As for your own experiences, I can't speak to those. I've had good luck adopting from shelters even over a year. Ol…

Either side (or both) could choose to stop the cycle.

I did not summon my dog into existence; had there been no dogs available directly from (reputable) breeders, I would have either found an agreeable candidate at a shelter, or not adopted at all.

Absurdly, tjr.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#52

Post by papsosouid » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:09 PM UTC

Falling3 wrote: post #16

Very happy to see this on HN. I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs. Between the conditions of large-scale breeders and the amount of animals waiting in shelters, it's just absurd.

>I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs.

Because we wanted a shiba. Because we wanted a dog where we knew it had parents without serious genetic defects, health or temperament problems. Because we wanted a puppy so we could be sure it hadn't had a chance to have behavioural problems created through bad training, abuse, etc.

>Between the conditions of large-scale breeders

What does that have to do with anything? You can purchase a dog without getting it from a puppy mill.

>the amount of animals waiting in shelters

There were 3 dogs at our local shelter, 2 at the one 45 minutes away, and 2 at the one a half hour away. I asked a woman at the local shelter when they last had to euthanize a dog for space reasons, and she responded "I don't know, I've only been here for two years". The amount of animals at shelters does not appear to be an issue here.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#53

Post by bluedino » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:09 PM UTC

Falling3 wrote: post #16

Very happy to see this on HN. I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs. Between the conditions of large-scale breeders and the amount of animals waiting in shelters, it's just absurd.

>> I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs.

Sadly, certain breeds of dogs are considered a status symbol, are trendy, or buyers think they can sell the offspring of said dog to recoup the costs (and then some).

Remember the glut of Dalmations at shelters after the '101 Dalmations' movie came out? Every kid wanted one, parents bought them, and after realizing they can be very difficult dogs to live with, they were sent to the shelters.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#54

Post by bluedino » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

I thought this article was going to be about the $52 billion a year Americans spend on pets.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#55

Post by bluedino » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #46

papsosouid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though.

> Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. Ah, fair enough. > I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though. They exist in theory :-). I've had a few indoor cats--Every single one has gotten out at some point (cats are pretty sneaky bastards). One wasn't spayed when she got out and was gone for a about 4 hours. Guess who was pregnant when she got back? S…

Outdoor cats are a huge threat to wildlife as well. A skilled cat is capable of hunting just about anything in your backyard.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#56

Post by __david__ » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

archon wrote: post #31

sharkweek wrote: post #5

Soap box time!! -- I walk dogs at a local shelter. There is not a common breed that doesn't find it's way through our doors at some point during the year. Sure, you might not end up with a "certified" purebred that's going to win a dog show (do you really want one of those for your family anyway?), but with almost certainty, I can guarantee that you can find what you're looking for at a local shelter. There is almost…

> There is almost no reason to "buy" a dog I agree, if we're talking about puppies. There's no reason to buy a puppy. But an adult dog? I adopted an adult dog from a shelter, and I will never do so again. I realize that the rescue community does its best with the animals, but as an owner of a shelter dog, I really wish somebody had explained to me that the dog you see in the shelter might not actually be the same dog…

I had a very similar experience. I got a rescue that was an adolescent (not fully grown) and just the sweetest dog ever. We did all the kinds of socializing that you're supposed to do but as he got older he became more and more aggressive towards anyone that didn't live in the house.

It got to the point where we'd have to lock him up in a room when people came over because we were genuinely afraid that he would seriously injure a visiting friend or family member. We tried all kinds of trainers but nothing at all helped and we finally decided to put him down because it felt like he was a bomb that was just waiting to go off.

It was all the more depressing because when there were no strangers around he was a total sweetheart. He loved snuggling up with his humans and playing with our other dog.

The experience was so negative that I don't think I'd ever take in a shelter dog again. I paid a good breeder for a purebred after him (my breed choice of Whippet partially inspired by the positive behaviors of my shelter dog) and I've been very happy.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#57

Post by papsosouid » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:18 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #50

papsosouid wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Many other vets disagree. Yes, and many vets recommend horrible things like declawing. Being a vet does not come with any requirement to be moral or ethical, nor to care about animals at all. Notice how many vets refuse to euthanize animals hit by cars and brought to their clinic? Because the $6 matters more to them than the suffering of the animal. >but should note Yes, vets do have an unfortunate financial motivat…

> Yes, and many vets recommend horrible things like declawing. Is that really that bad? I'll admit that in the past I've had indoor cats declawed, which frankly really made my life easier. That's a bit selfish, I admit, but I also didn't see any negative aspect to the cat's behavior compared to other (clawed) cats I've had. > Yes, vets do have an unfortunate financial motivation that is often at odds with the best in…

>Is that really that bad?

Yes, I certainly consider mutilating animals for convenience to be bad. The process is removing the ends of their fingers. Look at your hand. See the last knuckle? Cut there.

>So do human doctors, and yet we trust them or get second opinions when things don't make sense to us.

We can also sue them if they recommend elective surgery that causes harm because they want money. This option is not available with vets. If your doctor solicited you with a "our records indicate your child is 5 years old, please book an appointment now to have his or her sexual organs removed. It is dangerous to have an intact child, and you are a bad parent if you do not have us remove his or her sex organs." notice, I suspect you would strongly consider a new doctor.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#58

Post by __david__ » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:21 PM UTC

papsosouid wrote: post #49

__david__ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. Ah, fair enough. > I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though. They exist in theory :-). I've had a few indoor cats--Every single one has gotten out at some point (cats are pretty sneaky bastards). One wasn't spayed when she got out and was gone for a about 4 hours. Guess who was pregnant when she got back? S…

They exist in practice too. I've had 9 indoor cats. I have not had any problems with escaping (only 3 of them have even had a desire to go outside at all).

Wow, that's pretty impressive. Every cat I've had has had a desire to outside at some point. I had a couple that learned how to open the screen door! So we put an extra door hook on it and they figured out that if they rattled it enough they could pop the hook out and get the door open anyway.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#59

Post by tjr » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:24 PM UTC

pageld wrote: post #39

Falling3 wrote: post #16

Very happy to see this on HN. I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs. Between the conditions of large-scale breeders and the amount of animals waiting in shelters, it's just absurd.

I know it goes against most people, but I bought a dog from a breeder. Basically just to see its parents and how it acted around its litter. My wife and I adopted a Lab two years earlier from a humane society. When she went through puberty, she started acting "off". As in she'd be playing, stop, have no depth in her eyes, and bite you if you got near her. 40 seconds later she was fine and she didn't even know what ha…

I agree with that too. Seeing the temperament of other dogs in the family can be a good indicator of how the puppy will (can?) turn out.

I've had four Brittany spaniels, two from early puppy stage, and two from adult stage. The two that I had from a puppy were wonderful dogs for me and my family. The two that were adopted as adults had acquired a variety of odd behaviors; one of them we were able to put up with, the other one was too destructive and eventually we had to relocate to a farm with more space than we had in the suburbs.

I now have an almost 2-year-old border collie that I first saw when she was 5 weeks old. Border collies in general have some particular tendencies that I'm still working on with her, but in general her temperament is very good.

For what it's worth, I did peruse the local shelter for a while before adopting a puppy from a farm.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#60

Post by Zimahl » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:30 PM UTC

Falling3 wrote: post #16

Very happy to see this on HN. I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs. Between the conditions of large-scale breeders and the amount of animals waiting in shelters, it's just absurd.

Well, people want what they want. And with dogs there's a ton of variation so getting what you want - right now - is more important to some people.

With cats, not so much. Most people want kittens, which there are always plenty of at the right times, and the variation in cats tends to be a little more interesting to the average cat owner. I've personally never owned 2 similar cats - other than two brothers who still were very different.