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How We Treat Pets in America

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Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#41

Post by callmeed »

sharkweek wrote: post #5

Soap box time!! -- I walk dogs at a local shelter. There is not a common breed that doesn't find it's way through our doors at some point during the year. Sure, you might not end up with a "certified" purebred that's going to win a dog show (do you really want one of those for your family anyway?), but with almost certainty, I can guarantee that you can find what you're looking for at a local shelter. There is almost…

>> I can guarantee that you can find what you're looking for at a local shelter.

I'm not sure. Our local shelters are dominated by 2 breeds: pit bulls and chihuahuas. I would say it's over 75% of the dogs here. In fact, I heard our shelter was bringing in dogs/breeds from other cities because no one wants the dogs brought in locally.

Also, I have reservations (maybe unwarranted) about bringing a shelter dog into a home with small kids (I have 3 and one has already been bitten by a dog). I'd much rather start with a puppy (which, again, I don't see a lot of in our shelters other than the breeds mentioned above).

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#43

Post by SilasX »

nsns wrote: post #2

Somewhat ironic to find this post two links above the one about lab rats getting tortured for "science". I guess rats are uglier.

Worse, rats are at least as capable of training and intelligent behavior as dogs, making the differential treatment even harder to understand.

One significant difference though, is the rate at which rats breed and how much more of a negative load they can place on the environment (and humans) when released into the wild.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#44

Post by bugschivers »

papsosouid wrote: post #33
manachar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, old-fashioned is not a code word for that specific test. it was the best word I could come with for a more traditional mindset vet. Some vets agree with you and consider it unethical. Many other vets disagree. Haven't read these all yet, but should note: Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Because earlyage gonadectomy appears to offer more benefits than risks for male dogs, animal shelters can safely gonadectomize…

>Many other vets disagree. Yes, and many vets recommend horrible things like declawing. Being a vet does not come with any requirement to be moral or ethical, nor to care about animals at all. Notice how many vets refuse to euthanize animals hit by cars and brought to their clinic? Because the $6 matters more to them than the suffering of the animal. >but should note Yes, vets do have an unfortunate financial motivat…

Personally, depending upon breed I wouldn't neuter until your dog is mature, irrespective of health issues, there are numerous behavioural issues that neutering can bring about. There is a second fear period that all dogs go through, and removing testosterone CAN in some dogs cause them to develop nervousness &/or fearful aggression, not to mention other behaviours. It is best to wait until a dog of either sex is mature for their breed, for most dogs that won't be until 2 years of age at the earliest.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#45

Post by bjt »

Falling3 wrote: post #15
nsns wrote: post #2

Somewhat ironic to find this post two links above the one about lab rats getting tortured for "science". I guess rats are uglier.

I for one find this kind of cognitive dissonance extremely upsetting and a bit perplexing. People are easily able to compartmentalize their feelings about various animals. This leads to neat little groups - food, pet, science experiment. It's very frustrating to me.

If it's purely the compartmentalization that upsets you, then you'd be happier if people were totally cool about tossing the Frisbee around with their dog Spot on Saturday, then cooking him up for Sunday dinner. Is that the case?

Anyway, people are a mix of rationality and emotions. We build up emotional attachments to the animals we keep as pets, and get uneasy thinking about using them in meals or experiments.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#46

Post by __david__ »

papsosouid wrote: post #34
__david__ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can in fact prevent your dog from having sex with other dogs. Yes, mostly because dogs, in general, can be easily fenced in. Cats, however, are much more wily.

Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though.

> Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs.

Ah, fair enough.

> I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though.

They exist in theory :-). I've had a few indoor cats--Every single one has gotten out at some point (cats are pretty sneaky bastards). One wasn't spayed when she got out and was gone for a about 4 hours. Guess who was pregnant when she got back? Sigh...

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#47

Post by tristan_juricek »

archon wrote: post #31
sharkweek wrote: post #5

Soap box time!! -- I walk dogs at a local shelter. There is not a common breed that doesn't find it's way through our doors at some point during the year. Sure, you might not end up with a "certified" purebred that's going to win a dog show (do you really want one of those for your family anyway?), but with almost certainty, I can guarantee that you can find what you're looking for at a local shelter. There is almost…

> There is almost no reason to "buy" a dog I agree, if we're talking about puppies. There's no reason to buy a puppy. But an adult dog? I adopted an adult dog from a shelter, and I will never do so again. I realize that the rescue community does its best with the animals, but as an owner of a shelter dog, I really wish somebody had explained to me that the dog you see in the shelter might not actually be the same dog…

Right: we "rescued" a lab who has been great, but had a lot of anxiety built up over being simply being left alone. People coming by the door eventually led to him destroying the front entryway.

The result: we started anxiety training, which has been effective. And a lot of work. Plus, not all dog trainers do this sort of thing, so it's a little pricier than most dog training. And, we as owners also needed some education on how to work with the dog. Considering that both me and my girlfriend grew up with animals (my dad is a vet, we always had animals), I would consider this point important; anxiety cases are not easy and not obvious for most pet owners to just figure out.

While puppies do require attention, they are a lot easier to learn to handle than an anxiety case. Anyone adopting an adult pet should be aware of the potential training costs, with medication, can extend well above $1000 USD. (And if the dog decides to destroy your furniture, well, there's that, too.)

I know I will think twice before adopting an adult dog in the future.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#48

Post by bostonpete »

fps wrote: post #17
sharkweek wrote: post #5

Soap box time!! -- I walk dogs at a local shelter. There is not a common breed that doesn't find it's way through our doors at some point during the year. Sure, you might not end up with a "certified" purebred that's going to win a dog show (do you really want one of those for your family anyway?), but with almost certainty, I can guarantee that you can find what you're looking for at a local shelter. There is almost…

Shelters in Massachusetts are very picky about who they adopt out to. My wife and I looked for a younger large breed dog for nearly a year, and were turned away at every local shelter because our yard wasn't fenced and we both worked full time. A few years earlier, living in an apartment disqualified us from adopting a cat in Massachusetts. We drove 3 hours to adopt a cat from New York, and 2 hours to buy a dog in Ne…

> and were turned away at every local shelter because > our yard wasn't fenced and we both worked full time.

Having owned a lab without a fenced yard and a working spouse, I'd say this is probably a good policy.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#49

Post by papsosouid »

__david__ wrote: post #46
papsosouid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though.

> Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. Ah, fair enough. > I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though. They exist in theory :-). I've had a few indoor cats--Every single one has gotten out at some point (cats are pretty sneaky bastards). One wasn't spayed when she got out and was gone for a about 4 hours. Guess who was pregnant when she got back? S…

They exist in practice too. I've had 9 indoor cats. I have not had any problems with escaping (only 3 of them have even had a desire to go outside at all).

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#50

Post by __david__ »

papsosouid wrote: post #33
manachar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, old-fashioned is not a code word for that specific test. it was the best word I could come with for a more traditional mindset vet. Some vets agree with you and consider it unethical. Many other vets disagree. Haven't read these all yet, but should note: Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Because earlyage gonadectomy appears to offer more benefits than risks for male dogs, animal shelters can safely gonadectomize…

>Many other vets disagree. Yes, and many vets recommend horrible things like declawing. Being a vet does not come with any requirement to be moral or ethical, nor to care about animals at all. Notice how many vets refuse to euthanize animals hit by cars and brought to their clinic? Because the $6 matters more to them than the suffering of the animal. >but should note Yes, vets do have an unfortunate financial motivat…

> Yes, and many vets recommend horrible things like declawing.

Is that really that bad? I'll admit that in the past I've had indoor cats declawed, which frankly really made my life easier. That's a bit selfish, I admit, but I also didn't see any negative aspect to the cat's behavior compared to other (clawed) cats I've had.

> Yes, vets do have an unfortunate financial motivation that is often at odds with the best interests of the animals.

So do human doctors, and yet we trust them or get second opinions when things don't make sense to us. I try to treat my pets the same way.

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