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Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

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Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#171

Post by dmoney »

sodafountan wrote: post #154
frozenport wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly disagree. Lets focus on one point. Literacy facilitated efficient information exchange. Likewise programming facilitated efficient information exchange. But, not everybody needed to program the Internet for this advantage. I think you are confusing a personal advantage and societal advantage. Certainly, we need programers but I am uncertain if everybody needs to be a programmer. I work a full-time software j…

I think that what humanity gained in literacy when Gutenburg invented the printing press is akin to what humanity can gain in problem solving skills upon the invention of the microprocessor. An everyday problem solver is a more peaceful, more level headed, and more thoughtful person than someone who is not. Just like an everyday reader is someone who is more informed than someone who is illiterate. The best way to te…

> A smarter population will lead to more peace and prosperity for the human race.

Or language wars fought with real weapons.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#172

Post by pifflesnort »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #103
aashaykumar92 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can learn to program on your own and become proficient in it, build great projects, and keep up to date with the languages, why does it matter what major you are? Granted I'm 20 and still in school, but just being a CS major doesn't make someone a great programmer. I like to think that employers care about projects you've worked on as that is the best way to see a true programmers talents.

Just realize that if you don't get a degree, you will always battle people who feel threatened by you. School becomes a core part of most people's identity, and they can be very protective of it in passive aggressive ways. People are told from a young age that people who didn't attend school are uneducated. At least that's been the case with me. I have a great career and no degree, and it's something I deal with cons…

Just keep quiet about it.

I don't include 'education' on my resume, and I don't mention it to people. I can't recall the last time I was asked. Everyone seems to assume I have a degree because everyone else in the field has one.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#173

Post by marquis »

wes-exp wrote: post #33

Personally I think the world is drunk with "code fever". We are creatures of overreaction. Not too long ago it was "no one learn to code! it's all going to be outsourced to India!" Now, "I'm starting a non-profit to spread the gift of coding to children. Coding is our future". Give me a f-ing break.

As someone who teaches people to code as a non-profit in an economically challenged environment, I'd invite you to stop in to one of your local non-profit-learn-to-code events and see the variety and interest of the people it attracts and the results. Not all of them will go on to become professional programmers but most of them will use code in their careers at some point in some capacity. More importantly, coding teaches self-learning, problem-solving and independence which can be applied to absolutely every way of life.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#174

Post by dmoney »

duaneb wrote: post #84
michaelochurch wrote: post #4

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

> You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. You need one to get a job, though. If not now, in twenty years when you're old in an ageist industry.

It may be helpful to get you past the initial Catch-22, but if you can manage to get a few years of experience (let alone 20), I doubt the degree would matter much. Lots of job postings have "Or equivalent experience" after their degree requirements.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#175

Post by ajasmin »

NickPollard wrote: post #153
frozenport wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly disagree. Lets focus on one point. Literacy facilitated efficient information exchange. Likewise programming facilitated efficient information exchange. But, not everybody needed to program the Internet for this advantage. I think you are confusing a personal advantage and societal advantage. Certainly, we need programers but I am uncertain if everybody needs to be a programmer. I work a full-time software j…

He's not saying everyone needs to be a programmer , but everyone needs to be able to program . The number of times in all my jobs where I've seen people working on problems that could be done orders of magnitude faster with a bit of coding knowledge, is beyond count. Reformat that document? How about a Regex? Analyse this data? Automatic graph generation and statistical methods. Keep records updated? Database with au…

Domain specific languages have a role to play there. You already mentioned Regex and SQL but things like R, MathLab or even Excel can be invaluable tools in some professions.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#176

Post by kevin_rubyhouse »

duaneb wrote: post #122
dreamdu5t wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is accessible to anyone, for free. I learned everything I use in my career for free on the Internet. Most people have better things to do than programming, and don't want to invest the time to learn just because a news article said they should.

> Most people have better things to do than programming, Most people have no idea what programming is and can't make that judgement for themselves—coding should be taught in high school, not because everyone will code but because people need to know what kind of opportunities exist. Let's be honest, a lot of high school classes were nearly useless in terms of how much you used what you learned, but they were useful b…

Coding IS taught is in high school, but is not mandatory. You know this of course, but it's important to note that there is no shortage of opportunities for students to take computer science courses. Some districts will even send students to a nearby school if enough students want to do it but the school doesn't offer it. High school computer science classes were useful, but still at such a slow pace for people that were interested enough to learn at all outside of class. Anybody that was obsessed with programming outside of class probably wouldn't take the class or just snooze through it.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#177

Post by frozenport »

jamesjporter wrote: post #146
frozenport wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly disagree. Lets focus on one point. Literacy facilitated efficient information exchange. Likewise programming facilitated efficient information exchange. But, not everybody needed to program the Internet for this advantage. I think you are confusing a personal advantage and societal advantage. Certainly, we need programers but I am uncertain if everybody needs to be a programmer. I work a full-time software j…

lack of US PhDs? We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them.

The job market certainly sucks, but it maybe because a large number have uncompromising dreams of working in academia. In EE a PhD will land you a job at a company of your choice.

As does the U.S. in general, the NavLabs suffer from an increasingly severe shortage of trained replacement civilian personnel in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (= STEM topics). The Navy’s problem is more severe than the nation’s because only U.S. citizens can work at NavLabs, and a great many U.S. STEM graduates are foreign nationals.

[1] The following is a report http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a503549.pdf.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#178

Post by crynix »

kevin_rubyhouse wrote: post #176
duaneb wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have better things to do than programming, Most people have no idea what programming is and can't make that judgement for themselves—coding should be taught in high school, not because everyone will code but because people need to know what kind of opportunities exist. Let's be honest, a lot of high school classes were nearly useless in terms of how much you used what you learned, but they were useful b…

Coding IS taught is in high school, but is not mandatory. You know this of course, but it's important to note that there is no shortage of opportunities for students to take computer science courses. Some districts will even send students to a nearby school if enough students want to do it but the school doesn't offer it. High school computer science classes were useful, but still at such a slow pace for people that…

Yes, programming is taught inside of _some_ high schools. A shockingly low amount of high schools actually teach it though. Neither my high school nor other nearby high schools have any sort of computer science curriculum.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#179

Post by kevin_rubyhouse »

crynix wrote: post #178
kevin_rubyhouse wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coding IS taught is in high school, but is not mandatory. You know this of course, but it's important to note that there is no shortage of opportunities for students to take computer science courses. Some districts will even send students to a nearby school if enough students want to do it but the school doesn't offer it. High school computer science classes were useful, but still at such a slow pace for people that…

Yes, programming is taught inside of _some_ high schools. A shockingly low amount of high schools actually teach it though. Neither my high school nor other nearby high schools have any sort of computer science curriculum.

These schools would offer the course if enough of the students are interested. There is no lack of information around us (internet, libraries, sit down at a book store) to learn programming. The issue is the perception of programming in high school - the stigma around it. This might be perpetuated by some of the more eccentric programmers, and these programmers are very good and tend to grow into strong programmers! But they can also repel people that might have been interested, but it conflicts with social status that is so important in high school to the majority of people.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#180

Post by jfb »

ditonal wrote: post #117
chrisaycock wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My identical-twin brother is a doctor, and I make far more than he does. The reason is that I don't call myself a programmer [1]. Instead, I've built-up enormous amounts of domain knowledge [2] in addition to my software engineering skills. As for the career prospects of anyone fresh out of law school, the legal profession suffered a massive meltdown in 2008 and hasn't recovered. [1] http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/…

Your two data points don't mean much because we're talking about macro trends and whether a 'shortage' actually exists. Specifically I'm asking someone to justify the assertion that there is a shortage of good programmers with some numbers, and I pointed out that job openings is essentially just market 'bids' and therefore not a very good metric since all markets have lots of 'bids' at well below market price. For so…

It's important to keep in mind the role of the professional guilds in controlling supply for lawyers and particularly for doctors.
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