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Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

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Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#161
post #40

School courses will do nothing if people don't have access to programmable computers. And they don't have - Windows doesn't ship with Visual Studio, OSX and Linux are irrelevant, iOS and Android don't come with SDK CDs and demos. Now, of course, you know that these tools exist, and I know too. But most people don't and to them programming simply doesn't exist. Teaching these people quicksort in school won't be of muc…

> School courses will do nothing if people don't have access to programmable computers. And they don't have [...] Well, that's almost solved with the Raspberry Pi: a fully programmable computer for just $40. It used to be a lot more expensive to give a child access to a computer that (s)he could program and tinker with...

Hm... What would be easier to convince schools to do:

A.) download this software package (say, Python) that allows kids to learn how to program. B.) buy a dozen $40 mini-computers kids can use to learn how to program.

Most schools I know of would pick option A.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly disagree. Lets focus on one point. Literacy facilitated efficient information exchange. Likewise programming facilitated efficient information exchange. But, not everybody needed to program the Internet for this advantage. I think you are confusing a personal advantage and societal advantage. Certainly, we need programers but I am uncertain if everybody needs to be a programmer. I work a full-time software j…

lack of US PhDs? We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them.

We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them.

When I was a kid and first learned about the Roman Empire and its fall, and of all the other historical empires that collapsed, one of the things that I wondered was how these people could be so "stupid". Of course, I didn't understand the day-to-day nuances involved. I saw these as personalized historic entities rather than complex patterns of behavior. I just couldn't grasp why such things would "allow" themselves to fall apart.

When I look at what has happened to the U.S. job market for scientists, researchers and academics and place that in the context of what we were as a society and what we've become... I get it. I now know what it is and what it looks like when a complex society "chooses" decline.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lack of US PhDs? We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them.

We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them. When I was a kid and first learned about the Roman Empire and its fall, and of all the other historical empires that collapsed, one of the things that I wondered was how these people could be so "stupid". Of course, I didn't understand the day-to-day nuances involved. I…

Historically speaking, wasn't the temporary boost in demand for PhDs after WW2 the abnormality?

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#164

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

> "our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way"

As a fairly senior developer, I just can't fathom this attitude. Working for a manager means you're low status or defeated? I want to work for a manager. Reward me and give me autonomy and respect due a valuable developer, sure, but please do all that management shit for me. In my mind (and at every single company I've ever worked at), the guys who actually build stuff are high status.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#165

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

>A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York

This is an important and under-emphasized point, which is elaborated here: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/face... . One problem with programming salaries is that so many programming jobs and opportunities are concentrated in areas with very expensive housing, such that salaries themselves have to go up to compensate.

Before 1976, this wasn't as big a problem as it is now: most places that experienced rapid growth could build housing stock in response to that growth. In 1976, however, the Supreme Court upheld a 9th District decision allowing the City of Petaluma to impose severe restrictions on construction (see 522 F.2d 897 if you're the sort of person who likes reading court decisions).

After that, more and more cities made construction harder and harder; now areas that have a geographic advantage in some industry often can't build sufficient housing to keep up with demand because of legal barriers.

But relatively few people connect these issues.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can learn to program on your own and become proficient in it, build great projects, and keep up to date with the languages, why does it matter what major you are? Granted I'm 20 and still in school, but just being a CS major doesn't make someone a great programmer. I like to think that employers care about projects you've worked on as that is the best way to see a true programmers talents.

Just realize that if you don't get a degree, you will always battle people who feel threatened by you. School becomes a core part of most people's identity, and they can be very protective of it in passive aggressive ways. People are told from a young age that people who didn't attend school are uneducated. At least that's been the case with me. I have a great career and no degree, and it's something I deal with cons…

Yes, I'm in a similar situation and see the same reactions. People have a very irrational concept of post-secondary schooling. In many cases it's a very personal thing for them. Many've grown up thinking they'd be the first-in-family college graduate, holding that as a life goal, and listening to their parents and grandparents complain about how they never had the same opportunities as the college grads. Others have grown up with the expectation that they'll keep in the family tradition of graduates and not bring shame by failing to graduate. They've paid dozens of thousands of dollars for a degree. They've invested four years or more of their life, and all of that is epitomized in the "degree", when they're pat on the back and told they're a real grown-up now. And many seriously take this whole process to heart, and the less real value in a career, the worse this degree snobbery gets. They feel their degree has given them everything (and honestly it probably has, since their personal commercial value is often negligible). It almost becomes an idol to them. It is, therefore, considered a heresy if you speak evil of that system, and heretics are not well received.

Because of all this social programming, there are few who will admit that modern undergraduate programs, and often their graduate counterparts, are a horrendously inefficient, slow bureaucracy that provides a form of pseudo-independence for developing adults, cater classes to the lowest common denominator in order to pass more students, and occasionally have desirable network-building properties. But that's the reality.

We tie up adult identity in degrees very, very closely in our culture. Someone who never graduated college (or worse, high school) is automatically considered lower class by many. It is considered an essential of both personal and professional development in the white-collar world. Their whole lives people are told, "Go to college so you can get a good job." Is it any wonder those who've "paid their dues" and gone through these motions feel entitled to employment, even if they have no commercially viable skillset (and, this is critical to understand: most don't)? It's becoming a large social issue, but no one is willing to admit the real causes.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's turtles all the way down. I love LCD, but here are examples of things James Murphy lifted: the fall telephone thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOtckaZtLg#t=0m36s pretty distinctive way to say "i'm tapped" used in movement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6MIChyCBAU#t=0m43s in general his vocal style and delivery alternate between mark e smith from the fall and brian eno. really not a bad thing in my book,…

I understand it's just culture, appropriation is how culture develops. That being said, that piece of music used in this is obviously just a rip off of Dance Yrself Clean, with a small modality change.

Based on past occurrences, it would seem that DFA Records would not mind it too much:

https://twitter.com/dfarecords/status/205708411344666625 http://boilerroom.tv/james-murphys-red-bull-music-academy-le...

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#168
post #156
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first statement was that you need a degree to get a job. Having a degree gives you access to more jobs, but you can get a job just fine without a degree.

> but you can get a job just fine without a degree. I have a few relatives who are well versed in computers but cannot find employment. I'm sure they would be reassured by your comment.

Being "well-versed in computers" is not the same thing as being a valuable programmer. If you are a valuable programmer and you still can't find a job without a degree, you're doing something wrong (what you're doing wrong varies individually, of course).

I have no degree, and have never gone more than a month without a job offer while actively looking for a position. One time it took two months to find a position with acceptable compensation, but I'd received a low-ball offer in the first month.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#169
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Zuck, Gates, Dorsey, Houston, etc. are all encouraging people to learn to code for this reason" Certainly the self serving reason for the push can't be overlooked. The more people that are pushed into coding the more of a chance that Zuck/Dorsey/Houston can find a superstar to hire. I'm sure in any industry (medical research as only one example) the people in that industry would love if more young people took a shin…

I'm not so sure if I agree with the self serving push. I mean sure, these guys want great engineers--in fact, Zuckerberg explicitly states that. But also remember that Zuckerberg is now investing in young medical research and Gates has been a philanthropic investor for a long time--these guys are looking beyond their companies and show that they truly care about the world and solving the BIG problems that exist. They…

If there's no self interest involved at all how come Objective-C is not on the list of languages that they're pushing?

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#170
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly disagree. Lets focus on one point. Literacy facilitated efficient information exchange. Likewise programming facilitated efficient information exchange. But, not everybody needed to program the Internet for this advantage. I think you are confusing a personal advantage and societal advantage. Certainly, we need programers but I am uncertain if everybody needs to be a programmer. I work a full-time software j…

Programming enables automation of your domain-specific knowledge. Animators who could program gave us CG movies. Musicians who could program gave us software music composition tools. Would garbage collectors who could program give us robots to do parts of their jobs? Or apps to communicate real-time problems? Or public education websites? I think it very likely. Any field -- any field at all! -- that can benefit from…

This recent article is basically the same concept: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5275313

> Despite these challenges, we republished the updated graphic without too much delay. But I was left thinking how much easier it could have been had I simply recorded the process the first time as a makefile. I could have simply typed make in the terminal and be done!

In other words, the key "transferrable skill" of programming, is being able to describe a process in enough exacting detail, that nobody ever needs to "reconstruct" it again. The computers-being-able-to-execute-the-process thing is just a nice side-effect.

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