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Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

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Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#121

Post by duaneb »

aashaykumar92 wrote: post #112
aashaykumar92 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can learn to program on your own and become proficient in it, build great projects, and keep up to date with the languages, why does it matter what major you are? Granted I'm 20 and still in school, but just being a CS major doesn't make someone a great programmer. I like to think that employers care about projects you've worked on as that is the best way to see a true programmers talents.

I am not saying that a degree is not important! I'm just saying that just being a CS major does not make one a great programmer and likewise, a great programmer need not be a CS major. I believe a history major can become a great programmer...as said in the video, learning how to program just takes determination. I was an econ major and learned html/css in a few short weeks pretty darn well. At least enough to land m…

> I'm just saying that just being a CS major does not make one a great programmer and likewise, a great programmer need not be a CS major.

I'm emphatically not saying this, I'm saying that a degree is good for employment. Many places will outright refuse to hire people without at least a BA in computer science (or computer engineering, I guess? I am not aware of the related fields).

Thankfully, investors care more about the end code than degrees.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#122

Post by duaneb »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #97
nickmain wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should be talking less about forming "tribes" and more about how to make programming accessible to anyone who needs to solve real problems using computers.

It is accessible to anyone, for free. I learned everything I use in my career for free on the Internet. Most people have better things to do than programming, and don't want to invest the time to learn just because a news article said they should.

> Most people have better things to do than programming,

Most people have no idea what programming is and can't make that judgement for themselves—coding should be taught in high school, not because everyone will code but because people need to know what kind of opportunities exist. Let's be honest, a lot of high school classes were nearly useless in terms of how much you used what you learned, but they were useful because you learned you didn't want to become a chemist (or whatever).

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#123

Post by acchow »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #89
michaelochurch wrote: post #4

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

Fred George is interesting on this - see Programmer Anarchy. My view (and yes I am working up a blog post) is 1. Coding is the equivalent of literacy after 1451 (Gutenberg). 2. in say, one generation, any company not having literate people at all levels of the organisation, and not having then changed how they work at a fundamental level to take advantage of these programmers/business people will be at as severe a co…

Communication has evolved over time from hand/body gestures and noises to spoken language to reading/writing. The latter (literacy) is now a major form of communication and required in almost any job.

Coding is not a form of communication.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#124

Post by lifeisstillgood »

droidist2 wrote: post #60
michaelochurch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're off the mark, because you're always "working for someone else". Details change, but ultimately there's no difference between "mak[ing] something that is useful" and working for others. Sometimes the terms are great, and sometimes they're awful. The implicit assumption is that "working for an established organization" must imply "working with miserably low levels of autonomy". I'm not sure that I agree.…

Do you mean we should unionize?

Lawyers don't unionise - they have professional ethics bodies.

The difference is that when the law is code, and code law, we shall have a professional ethics body too. When programmers can do real damage and affect real lives they naturally gravitate to professional considered advice

Look at JPL or NASA, or a medical devices company.

The level of testing and reliability there is astounding - but so is the cost. And one day the engineers will find a way of capturing all that cost.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#125

Post by lifeisstillgood »

civilian wrote: post #114
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fred George is interesting on this - see Programmer Anarchy. My view (and yes I am working up a blog post) is 1. Coding is the equivalent of literacy after 1451 (Gutenberg). 2. in say, one generation, any company not having literate people at all levels of the organisation, and not having then changed how they work at a fundamental level to take advantage of these programmers/business people will be at as severe a co…

let me know when that blog post is finished!

I'll put up a mailchimp account :-)

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#126

Post by zwegner »

base698 wrote: post #116
zwegner wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yawn. I would say the same about the glorious PhD professors that attempted to teach me. Even the best professors, who were actually pretty knowledgeable, would never really code at all, pushing that off to the grad students. Some people just don't fit into the way academia works, and making silly judgments like yours about them does nothing but entrench the status quo.

I agree, but you still have to read the book. Coding can not be learned by copy and pasting other people's code. All I was trying to say is for every 20 people that say they are self-taught only one of them can write a feature from scratch from a blank slate and explain the trade offs of why they used a hashset vs a list. The other 19 may be able to get something working by copy and pasting another section and spendi…

Well, consider me in the 5% then. And though you're probably right about the 1-in-20, I don't think I'd put the proportion much higher for CS grads.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#128

Post by gamebit07 »

Programming only does not help you think, there are several other disciplines that help you think. Philosophy/Logic/Sociology IMHO does it better. If industry needs more programmers, for economic growth, this does not mean kids should be brainwashed to learn to code. And even after learning to code, what do you do, an average programmers life goes just copy pasting stuff.

Google/SO customize copy and paste. Thats what I have been doing. I wonder if I actually think to solve problems while coding or just pile patterns of text, place proper settings and API keys.

Having said all above, Deep within I believe hackers are like painters(Read pg's great essay - http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html), for hacking is like painting, would you want every one to be a painter? If not why everyone a programmer? Why learn to code? Programming or Painting is not mathematics nor reading writing skills, i can live happily without learning how to paint and how to write codes. Coding is NOT an essential life skill, there are many who have been living without and will continue to live. I won't learn programming because i don't require it.

I feel sad, on such brainwashing. And starting with steve job's quote about programming, is like doing a ferrari promo by Michael Jordon. I would have been happier, had they got something from woz.

Michael Moore come up with a documentary please.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#129

Post by [deleted] »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #124
droidist2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean we should unionize?

Lawyers don't unionise - they have professional ethics bodies. The difference is that when the law is code, and code law, we shall have a professional ethics body too. When programmers can do real damage and affect real lives they naturally gravitate to professional considered advice Look at JPL or NASA, or a medical devices company. The level of testing and reliability there is astounding - but so is the cost. And o…

[deleted]

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#130

Post by hpvic03 »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #120
frozenport wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I humbly disagree. Lets focus on one point. Literacy facilitated efficient information exchange. Likewise programming facilitated efficient information exchange. But, not everybody needed to program the Internet for this advantage. I think you are confusing a personal advantage and societal advantage. Certainly, we need programers but I am uncertain if everybody needs to be a programmer. I work a full-time software j…

It's not about user facing JavaScript apps. It's about adding another tool to the mental toolbox. Calculus, statistics, physics simulations - all of these will be of use in a persons career, yes, but like you I think that is not important. What is utterly important is that the most expressive and flexible tool in the mental toolbox for two hundred years is put in the hands of as many human beings as possible. I want…

It sounds like you think all scientists should learn how to code.

I am certain that there are many people who rarely use calculus and physics simulations in their work, and who would never need to program even if they knew how.

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