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No more remote work at Yahoo

37signals.com

111–120 of 217 posts

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#111
i'm not sure i would describe myself as a remote worker but instead, a worker that comes in when there are advantages to coming in: a set of meetings, a day where I need tons of facetime to nail things down, things that that are worth the commute.

This is about 2x a week. I consciously batch these days up with as much of this as possible. I work at home the other 3 days (on average again, some weeks I'm in the whole week, some week I am at home the whole week).

I find this incredibly productive. I crush the people that work in the office full time. I have time to be healthy with the regained hours from commuting (40min in my case). I can afford a house.

Sorry, but the butts in seats mentality is crazy and I'm not going back. Even for Google (where I've worked), which was nice, but failed on this score.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#112
post #76
post #53

37signals comes down against a decree of no more remote working. I am shocked (shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment). Much like hiring practices this is and will continue to be a divisive issue. This one however seems to be largely driven by personal preference: if you want to work from home, you can't understand why anyone is against it. If you don't, then you do. I fall in the camp of not n…

I don't think working remotely scales. Scales to what? I don't understand how this argument can be made when most companies have multiple, globally distributed offices, which turns their workforce effectively remote on the grand scale. On all on-site jobs I've done so far, the remote offices were effectively other companies as far as communicating is concerned. People who're used to in-face communication have a huge…

scales to FTSE 100, DOW 30 or Global 500 size one place (British telecom) I worked at had a division had more developers/engineers than google has employees.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#113
post #27

Working from home is boring. I spent 1 1/2 years working from home but now much prefer working in my client's office with the team. It seems no one else is either willing to admit this, or I am the only one who prefers the social interactions and the ability to resolve and issue face-to-face in 2 minutes rather than struggling on Skype, or waiting for emails.

Boring for you, not me.

What I find boring is being told about how drunk some lad got at the week end, or some one's latest recipe, or how a hubby is a git, or how the immigrants are taking all the jobs or how benefits claimants are scroungers or how blah, blah, blah............ all of with puts me off working in an office, well, working at all. And even if I politely make it clear I'm not interested, the drone of social BS continues in the back ground.

Others thrive on that, but in my experience, spend a lot of time gossiping and not working. Meanwhile, I'm at home working twice as hard because I'm worried other will think I'm being lazy and watching TV or some such. But that is just my experience.

Truth is it all depends on culture, personality, role and circumstance.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an ad hominem, it's pointing out a relevant conflict of interest. DHH is heavily invested in promoting remote work arrangements. It doesn't invalidate his arguments, it does help explain why he's flying off the handle over this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial

From that link:

Conflict of Interest: Where a source seeks to convince by a claim of authority or by personal observation, identification of conflicts of interest are not ad hominem – it is generally well accepted that an "authority" needs to be objective and impartial, and that an audience can only evaluate information from a source if they know about conflicts of interest that may affect the objectivity of the source. Identification of a conflict of interest is appropriate, and concealment of a conflict of interest is a problem.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#116

TL;DR: Here's the thing: All engineering is "working remotely" because being "remote" is simply a matter of isolation. This is why even people in the same room use headphones, IM, etc. Everything that's not working remotely (eg: isolation) is "meetings" and the overhead of distractions. The only advantage of having engineers in the same office is a lower cost of meetings. The disadvantage is it makes engineering hard…

> Meyer doesn't respect or understand engineering culture I think somebody doesn't understand where Mayer came from.

I know exactly where Meyer came from, and a fair bit of inside baseball about her time there.

If you disagree with my argument, please make a counter argument. Snide comments are useless.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Yahoo wants to build (or rebuild) an engineering culture. Then say that. Say it loud and proud. Say we want to build an engineering culture of excellence. Talk about how programmers will rule the roost once more. Talk about the open sourcing of the Yahoo libraries, how Yahoo will never let a piece of code go without review and tests. And then say "In my opinion as the CEO we can only do this by being in the office…

>This, this is just "I'm in charge, everyone in because I say so" I doubt it's like this. From all the articles I have read, everyone seems to just be vilifying Mayer in standard linkbait form. Mayer could have said that ("In my opinion as the CEO we can only do this by being in the office at the same time, no flexi-hours, no mucking about, everyone in.") but it wouldn't matter because everyone would twist her words.…

OK, finding the original is hard work - in fact not possible

  YAHOO! PROPRIETARY AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION — DO NOT 
  FORWARD
...

  To become the absolute best place to work, communication 
  and collaboration will be important, so we need to be 
  working side-by-side. That is why it is critical that we 
  are all present in our offices. Some of the best decisions 
  and insights come from hallway and cafeteria discussions, 
  meeting new people, 
But ... it just does not make sense ...

1. If we take as read that working in physical proximity increases communication (often, not always certainly) then why have multiple offices? Who exactly is supposed to work together with whom? Why is the San Francisco office not the one and only office? Why have a Beijing office if people there cannot work with people in Bangalore

2. I hope I am not villifying Meyer - I think she has taken on a difficult high profile role. I have never run a 10,000's people company. Its probably quite difficult.

3. Scaling remote working. No organisation seems to effectgively scale past the dunbar number - communication and collaboration drops alarmingly. (Its not intra-group comms that drops, its the inter-group comms.)

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#118
post #53

37signals comes down against a decree of no more remote working. I am shocked (shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment). Much like hiring practices this is and will continue to be a divisive issue. This one however seems to be largely driven by personal preference: if you want to work from home, you can't understand why anyone is against it. If you don't, then you do. I fall in the camp of not n…

"As for commute, this much is true and is a particular problem in the Valley. For me, my commute is a 7 minute walk to work (in NYC). YMMV. :)"

I might be going way out on a limb here, but I think this kind of thing is a subtle driver of age/family discrimination.

What kind of workers are more likely to live by the office, and thus able to drop in on a moment's notice? Young, single workers.

What type of workers are less likely to do this? Older workers or workers with families who have to deal with commute/spouses/children/etc.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#119
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anyone who is happy working in the environment that was Yahoo over the past 5 years is not an A player by any stretch, so it's safe to assume that you can afford to lose them." Great comment.

It's high-grade snark, but the people who implemented Hadoop or Yahoo pipes do not seem to be particularly stupid.

Aren't most of those people gone? :) Doug Cutting (Hadoop) is at Cloudera now...

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#120
Firstly, I'm a huge fan of proper home working. Simply, it works for me.

The general "vibe" I get from this is that that new management has arrived and is concerned about productivity. I assume that if new management has arrived, they would or should know what productivity levels should be and that yahoo remote staff are lacking. If so, then from a management POV, it does seem quickest and simplest to notionally get everyone back to base and kind of hit a reset switch.

If yahoo is now a low ranked place to work, then I can well imagine that in general its employees are a bit low ranked too, and perhaps some of the more lazy ones looking for a lax easy life. Presumably the quality people will have left. In which case, remote working cant work well at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the employees, this can only happen or go wrong if management lets it. But, I think one should support a new regime that is presumably trying to sort it out. Presumably, and if it were me, they will assess the situation and bit by bit allow people out of the office again, but with new procedures, guidelines or what ever.

So, to be honest, I think I can see what yahoo is doing. Yes it is painful for the good remote employees that are left there, but if thing are going wrong, they need to support the attempts to fix it.

Or...... I've missed the point somewhere.

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