Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Death in Singapore

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 248 posts

Re: Death in Singapore

#201

Post by sophacles »

ck2 wrote: post #106

Huawei has been deemed a security risk by powerful US lawmakers Shane had deep misgivings about the project he was working on and feared he was compromising US national security The fact he didn't walk away in the first moment he felt this way, most likely means one of the US agencies killed him. We are apparently already allowed to kill citizens without trial when they are not on US soil. Well written article though…

I really don't think this follows. Even if we take everything presented in the article at face value, there are a lot of questions unasked (let alone answered) in the article:

1. How did he come to the conclusion/concern he might be violating US national security?

Speculations:

* He could have come to the conclusion on his own, he was apparently a smart guy.

* He could have been asked about his work by embassy officials.

* He could have heard/overheard a conversation that lead him down that path.

* other reasons I don't have any knowledge of.

2. Once he became concerned, what actions did he take?

Speculations: * He kept it to himself and his family.

* Being described as an all-american boy, he could have gone to the US embassy with his concerns. The general perception of US citizens is if you report things like this, even if you're unintentionally involved, you are not targeted.

* He could have started asking uncomfortable questions at work.

3. Why did he copy a bunch of (presumably NDA) "trade secret" research onto his own hard drive?

Speculation:

* He just wanted a copy of his work. (I know I've done this with certain bits of code)

* He wanted to give a gift to his new employer

* He wanted something to bargain with in case the USG investigated him.

* He was just going to hand it to the embassy.

* He didn't do it with any intent, it was just part of a normal backup routine and he didn't even think of it.

4. Why would that hard drive not have been destroyed or taken, particularly if it was accessed after death? (especially since the place was unlocked)

Speculation:

* Deep spy game stuff -- the accessed files were altered to be "wrong"

* There isn't foul play

* There is more dangerous information that they were really worried about, not the stuff he had

* No one realized the information was not on the company network, and some IT guy was just spot-checking against official work to make sure stuff wasn't lost.

5. If there are national security implications, what things are we not being told because of classified?

No speculation on my part here. I have no way of pretending to have a reasonable understanding of this world.

6. What don't we know about Shane Todd? (Not in a blame the victim way, but there is lots of a person's life that can't be described in an article of this size. Is there something about him his family didn't know? Is there something they are embarrassed to talk about?)

Speculation dependent questions:

1. If he went to the USG as a good citizen, what did they do?

* They could have advised him to not abruptly up and leave for personal security reasons.

* They could have asked him to get them copies of the research.

* They could have blown him off, or told him, "thanks, but don't worry about it".

2. Who are all the people who would be interested in targeting him?

* His employers (as speculated/suggested in the article).

* The US government, as you speculate.

* Governments who pay/partner with his employers

* Singapore government, wanting to keep various ties quiet

3. If they are after the research, why kill him rather than just steal his computers?

Re: Death in Singapore

#202

Post by dkersten »

buster wrote: post #145
white_devil wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are people out there that say "And personally i like to beat my wife and kids" and there are societies where this is accepted behaviour. Don't equate smoking marijuana to beating another human being. I've never even tried it, for the record, but I don't see anything wrong with getting high if you want to, as long as you don't cause harm to others.

I certainly don't equate marijuana to beating people (where did that word marijuana came from? It was about drugs. What about Krok? [1] Besides, you could count the victims of the drug scene, the mafia, gangs and everything that is behind drugs, bribe, weapons or prostitution. Buying drugs sponsors crime). Anyway, back to topic. The point is that Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world [2], that does…

Besides, you could count the victims of the drug scene, the mafia, gangs and everything that is behind drugs, bribe, weapons or prostitution. Buying drugs sponsors crime

That seems to be a side-effect of prohibition though, not the drugs themselves. It was the same when alcohol was illegal in the US. If the drugs weren't illegal, would this still be the case?

Re: Death in Singapore

#203

Post by jlgreco »

venus wrote: post #153
jlgreco wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with what caning, as performed as intended in Singapore, actually entails? It is not merely the infliction of pain, not some glorified form of spanking, but rather the infliction of bodily injury so severe that it requires immediate medical attention. It is barbaric, there is no nicer way to put it. Any reasonable human would consider it torture. Suggesting that it could ever be a suitable punishment…

You exaggerate. It's not a slap on the wrist, no, but calling it torture is a very long stretch indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#Medical_tre...

It is torture. It would be in clear violation of United Nations Convention Against Torture, but Singapore has not signed that.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1304013159

Tell you what, if you think that isn't torture, then you go get caned. If you can tell me it isn't torture afterwards, provided you are not in shock, then I'll take it all back. But if not, then I get to watch you attempt to cram your apologetics up your ruined ass.

Re: Death in Singapore

#204

Post by mistercow »

brador wrote: post #96
Matti wrote: post #81

Not the first death of that kind in Singapore: "Family suspects interference in David Widjaja case" http://sgforums.com/forums/3317/topics/363855 "However, it appeared the court process was intentionally directed to a conclusion of suicide despite evidence showing a strong possibility of murder, according to David's family and the verification team. "We have strong evidence that he was murdered but that fact was not…

Is hitting someone by car really a plausible method? Do they just drive round the block over and over until they see the guy?

Why would you need to drive around the block over and over? Cars can be parked.

Re: Death in Singapore

#205

Post by mistercow »

maeon3 wrote: post #126
brador wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is hitting someone by car really a plausible method? Do they just drive round the block over and over until they see the guy?

It's pretty easy to track a person without being detected, it's probably a little harder than deer hunting, but it's not impossible.

Not knowing much about it, I would assume that tracking people would be easier so long as you're in civilization. A deer would be suspicious at the site of any human at all. A human only becomes suspicious if they notice the same human more than once.

Re: Death in Singapore

#206

Post by jlgreco »

gph wrote: post #160
rdtsc wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that libertarian types love it. Its dystopia is closer to their own dystopia.

Are you sure you meant libertarians? I don't see how anything about Singapore would fit in with libertarian ideology...

"Libertarian" has just become lingo for "people with political ideologies that I consider fringe". You can find people calling anarchist ideologies "libertarian" while also finding people willing to call those who dream of Singapore libertarians. There is not rhyme nor reason to it.

Re: Death in Singapore

#207

Post by sigkill »

lgieron wrote: post #152
flexie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, but Singapore is a police state (a state where the government exercises rigid and oppressive laws). It is also a dictatorship. It may not be the worst of its kind in that it actually has (the thin conception of the) rule of law, but it's not a free country and it lacks decent human rights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law_doctrine_in_Singapo...

I think everyone agrees that dictatorship is superior to democracy IF the dictator is (and remains in the future) competent and also a decent human being. Maybe that's the state in Singapore right now?

You're right. I'm listening to the History of Rome, and even they had a dictator appointed during war to 'cut the crap and get on with things' in times of emergency. Time and again, it has been proven that a single benevolent dictator is much better for the country than a democratic system.

The only problem is that it's hard to find someone who does not fall into the 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' category, which is why we as a society are rather uncomfortable with the idea of a dictator.

Re: Death in Singapore

#208

Post by jlgreco »

chaostheory wrote: post #196
jessaustin wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that the nation in which Disneyland is located still has a death penalty. I really appreciate arbus's comment. You're right that it doesn't hang together in a completely rational way, but it is a rare accurate illustration of how Singaporeans really feel. For an empathetic person, it isn't hard to imagine feeling this way, if you grew up there. People in other countries also have idiosyncratic ways of…

> I'm pretty sure that the nation in which Disneyland is located still has a death penalty. I didn't know our Disney resorts had the death penalty for certain offenses committed within the park.

He means Florida still kills people.

At the very least though to Florida's credit, at least Amnesty International is confident that they can get a solid read on the number of people actually killed by Florida. There are grave concerns over even the reporting of executions in Singapore.

Re: Death in Singapore

#209

Post by jlgreco »

njloof wrote: post #175
nshepperd wrote: post #21

> The Todds agree that Shane’s hard drive may be a critical piece of evidence in how he died and could shed fresh light on the vulnerabilities of technology safeguards. But they question how the Singapore police have so far investigated Shane’s death, so they won’t hand over the drive. They are offering, instead, to send a copy of the contents of the drive. Good. This is pretty much the only sane way to handle digita…

Shane had no place taking home a copy of his work computer . Didn't deserve what happened, but that was just foolish... unless he was an informant.

If he was fearing for his life, he could have been intending to use it as insurance.

Re: Death in Singapore

#210

Post by evan_ »

ValentineC wrote: post #158
jessaustin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The family didn't help either by withholding evidence. They should have created a mirror of the external drive, then handed the original to the police (instead of offering to do it the other way around). This is ridiculous. The Todds lost their son. The police did a desultory job of investigating his death, and the family have the drive only because of how poorly the police secured the scene. On what planet do the To…

Randomly, I got curious on what drive it was, and it may have been a Seagate GoFlex Pro Ultraportable: http://www.seagate.com/sg/en/external-hard-drives/portable-h... (look under the Performance tab) I'm not sure what powers the Singapore police may have, especially since the Todds may already be out of the country, but they certainly didn't have any problems persuading a filmmaker to turn over her phone, laptop and…

I have the exact same drive pictured, it is a "Seagate FreeAgent Go": http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-FreeAgent-Portable-External-ST...

I've got it in black, it came with the dock pictured, and it actually looks quite a bit like a speaker when standing, because the lights at its base that indicate activity look like grille holes when they're dark.

Post reply on HN