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Death in Singapore

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Re: Death in Singapore

#191

Post by rdl »

contingencies wrote: post #83
rdl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite comfortable in defense. There are good reasons to avoid doing direct operations contracting for the USG (bureaucracy, inefficiency, etc.), but if you can just sell products, it's fine. The USG doesn't tend to assassinate its contractors.

Some might see that as a bit of a head-in-sand perspective; ie. one that conveniently avoids considering the onward effects of one's actions. You could equate it to the situation vegetarians often encounter, ie. people that say eating meat is OK because the animal is dead already, or because it was farmed to be food, or some such. In such cases, the animals are farmed and killed (often under horrible conditions) beca…

I believe there are moral uses of the military. I am not a pacifist (nor am I a vegetarian, nor a Buddhist). I don't think most people in the world are.

(It's great that you are or seem to be, though, if that works for you. The world I'd be most afraid of would be where 99% of people were pacifist and 1% were sociopaths, though)

Re: Death in Singapore

#192

Post by chaostheory »

rdtsc wrote: post #147
api wrote: post #143

I'm amazed at how many elite-school tech types idolize Singapore for some strange reason. I've heard a number of gushing recommendations for the place from the MIT/Harvard set. I personally see it as some kind of horrible sci-fi "Stepford Wives" "smile or die" dystopia... like a yuppie latte-sipping upscale version of North Korea. It makes me thankful for ghettoes and dirt and bums, given the alternative.

I find that libertarian types love it. Its dystopia is closer to their own dystopia.

I think you're either confusing Singapore or libertarians with something else. Singapore is a surveillance and censorship happy city state that China aspires to become.

Re: Death in Singapore

#193

Post by chaostheory »

confluence wrote: post #123
arbus wrote: post #122

I'm a Singaporean and have served for some time in the military( Compulsory National Service as well as a short stint as a regular) and I think that the comments below seem to misunderstand the level of control that the government has over speech, people and companies in Singapore. We have many restrictive laws here but they are very selectively enforced. As long as you stay away from "hot" topics such as direct crit…

You are exhibiting some insane cognitive dissonance there. Your post is internally inconsistent. Singapore is Disneyland with a death penalty.

Well in his defense, he's posting from Singapore. Who knows if he has VPN or not.

Re: Death in Singapore

#194

Post by lostlogin »

jleader wrote: post #38
homosaur wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascism is very effective. It's about values and freedom. If you don't care about that, safety is easy.

I don't know much about Singapore, but I think it's worth pointing out that while sometimes Facism can be effective, more commonly Facism claims to be very effective, and punishes those who publicly say otherwise.

Like every political system. I suppose that the way I see it is that a fascist systems punishes in a way that is worse than the character assassination and innuendo that western democracy offers.

Re: Death in Singapore

#195

Post by ValentineC »

yen223 wrote: post #162
rdtsc wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that libertarian types love it. Its dystopia is closer to their own dystopia.

They banned chewing gum for the longest time. Singapore definitely isn't socially libertarian.

Most chewing gum is still banned [1]. This, however, is almost never enforced in practice.

On the flip side, public drinking and prostitution are legal in Singapore.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewing_gum_ban_in_Singapore

Re: Death in Singapore

#196

Post by chaostheory »

jessaustin wrote: post #130
confluence wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are exhibiting some insane cognitive dissonance there. Your post is internally inconsistent. Singapore is Disneyland with a death penalty.

I'm pretty sure that the nation in which Disneyland is located still has a death penalty. I really appreciate arbus's comment. You're right that it doesn't hang together in a completely rational way, but it is a rare accurate illustration of how Singaporeans really feel. For an empathetic person, it isn't hard to imagine feeling this way, if you grew up there. People in other countries also have idiosyncratic ways of…

> I'm pretty sure that the nation in which Disneyland is located still has a death penalty.

I didn't know our Disney resorts had the death penalty for certain offenses committed within the park.

Re: Death in Singapore

#197

Post by ValentineC »

DigitalTurk wrote: post #99
hboon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a police state. And in recent years, it has been shown that it isn't corruption-free either.

Well, you don't have free press (the ST is a joke) and you're not allowed to criticize politicians by name. I don't know if it's a police state, but it definitely isn't a free country either.

There are numerous internet publications where politicians are criticised by name, though many publications self-censor because politicians have often initiated (and won/settled) defamation lawsuits [1]. There have been numerous allegations on the independence and impartiality of the judiciary when it comes to said lawsuits, however [2].

It is true that no printed newspapers may be published in Singapore without a permit [3].

[1] http://therealsingapore.com/content/history-defamation-suits...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_independence_in_Singap...

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Singapore#Newspapers

Re: Death in Singapore

#198

Post by bitcartel »

contingencies wrote: post #168
arbus wrote: post #122

I'm a Singaporean and have served for some time in the military( Compulsory National Service as well as a short stint as a regular) and I think that the comments below seem to misunderstand the level of control that the government has over speech, people and companies in Singapore. We have many restrictive laws here but they are very selectively enforced. As long as you stay away from "hot" topics such as direct crit…

Singaporeans: "We have high quality of life!" "We have relative freedom of speech!" "We are modern!" Rest of world: Singaporeans pay top dollar for tiny apartments, have no nature, no drugs (and thus little art), no real political freedom, are forced to military service (read: military brain washing on top of the social/education system serving) and self-censor routinely whilst claiming their government is really OK!…

Singapore, a tiny piece of land with no resources, has been transformed over 50 years from a colonial backwater into a first world country. People once in poverty now live much more comfortable lives. Of course things could be better but the issues you raise are no different from the issues people face in other countries and major cities.

Re: Death in Singapore

#199

Post by doktrin »

arbus wrote: post #122

I'm a Singaporean and have served for some time in the military( Compulsory National Service as well as a short stint as a regular) and I think that the comments below seem to misunderstand the level of control that the government has over speech, people and companies in Singapore. We have many restrictive laws here but they are very selectively enforced. As long as you stay away from "hot" topics such as direct crit…

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I hope you can understand why many reading it will find this depiction quite non-utopic.

Re: Death in Singapore

#200

Post by api »

jvm wrote: post #190
api wrote: post #143

I'm amazed at how many elite-school tech types idolize Singapore for some strange reason. I've heard a number of gushing recommendations for the place from the MIT/Harvard set. I personally see it as some kind of horrible sci-fi "Stepford Wives" "smile or die" dystopia... like a yuppie latte-sipping upscale version of North Korea. It makes me thankful for ghettoes and dirt and bums, given the alternative.

This perspective focusses on our cultural preferences, but there Singapore has very liberal immigration policies relative to other rich countries, providing many from more impoverished neighboring countries a route to advancement. Also note that its human development index is higher than the UK's, so we're talking about a country that, on paper, is extremely good at providing for its residents: http://en.wikipedia.or…

I didn't say it was the worst place on Earth. There are obviously a lot of candidates for that, and I can see how people from some surrounding regions would prefer it. But it's definitely not something to idolize unless you really love a micromanaging surveillance state with ridiculously unbalanced penalties for petty and victimless crimes.

As this story suggests, it's also an authoritarian oligarchy in which you have no real rights and can be "disappeared."

I honestly found it disturbing to see it idolized by smart people. Do they have no appreciation for cultural freedom? Or do they really believe that yuppie upscale boutique fascism is an ideal worth aspiring to?

Seriously, watch a film called THX-1138. "Buy, and be happy..." Sometimes I think politicians watch dystopian films and think "wow! that's a great idea! I never thought of that."

Learn to appreciate your local ghetto. Like the song says: you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.

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