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Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

posthaven.com

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Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#51

Post by 8ig8 »

garry wrote: post #44
jbail wrote: post #31

How can anyone believe this will hold true? Especially coming from the founders of Posterous who sold out and then shuttered their service? Was Posterous created to not be sustainable? If so, then Posterous's users were duped from the get go into using something that the founders knew wasn't sustainable and would eventually disappear. That's not a good way to treat users and it surely doesn't inspire confidence in th…

When I started working on Posterous in 2008, I intended to work on it forever. It didn't work out that way, and I left in January of 2011. It was a venture-funded company by then and we were committed to super-growth, not sustainability. We never started charging for the product. Posthaven is the result of my experience with that. I know the world needs a simple, clean, well-lit, easy place to post. One that doesn't…

What about making this a non-profit, run by a board?

Different idea, but, for example Matt M. created the WordPress Foundation to independently carry out the things he believed in.

http://wordpressfoundation.org/

Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#53

Post by jey »

groby_b wrote: post #37
garry wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Brad said -- this one is not to be sold. We'll charge money and keep the lights on no matter what. We want to provide this service like a basic utility like water and power, because that's what having a voice on the Internet should be.

I'll believe that once you actually have an escrow policy that e.g. ensures both source and domain names go into the trust of if you sell or fold. Until then, that pledge is just words which can be rescinded any given time. To be very clear: I am not insinuating you would break your pledge, but as a user, I'd be unwise to trust a non-binding statement on a web page.

Good idea, maybe they should even set it up under a trust right now?

Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#54

Post by qeorge »

jbail wrote: post #31

How can anyone believe this will hold true? Especially coming from the founders of Posterous who sold out and then shuttered their service? Was Posterous created to not be sustainable? If so, then Posterous's users were duped from the get go into using something that the founders knew wasn't sustainable and would eventually disappear. That's not a good way to treat users and it surely doesn't inspire confidence in th…

the founders of Posterous who sold out and then shuttered their service

Seriously? Just gonna throw 'em under the bus like that? Friends like these..

Its time to stop trotting out this meme that the alternative to an "aquihire" was a sustainable business. Sometimes you've got to fish or cut bait.

Ad hominem aside, trust should never be required for a good agreement. PostHaven has made a great start by killing any acquisition value from Day 1 by making their defining feature a promise never to sell. If they follow that up with e.g., transferring control of posthaven.com to a well-regarded foundation like Wikimedia, the EFF, or archive.org they could further remove the trust requirement from the contract they are forming with their users. That'd be great.

Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#55

Post by garry »

webwanderings wrote: post #29
garry wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We think the world still needs a Posterous-like blog engine that is simpler to use for everyone else. Posterous got quite complicated after I left, and I think the world needs the simple version again quite a lot.

The world has an option to sign-up for a free blog through Google, Tumblr and even wordpress.com (though Wordpress.com's free is not free like Google/Tumblr). So what makes you think the world will sign up for $5 service?

I am not here to 'kill' those services. Previously with Posterous we were very aggressive about that. I think people should use the service that is best for them. For some it will be wordpress.com, self-hosted Wordpress, Squarespace, and others.

We're making it for ourselves. It's a long-term project. If we make good software, then it doesn't matter if there are 500 users or 5 million.

Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#56

Post by Jeraimee »

r0s wrote: post #49
Jeraimee wrote: post #42

I don't trust it. After having to get another VPS and build (read: piece together) my own Posterous-like system (it's not half as good) I've already paid $$$. Paying these guys 5 bucks more with no way to know the same thing will or won't happen doesn't seem sane. The system doesn't even WORK yet! How dare they.

Why would you invent your own system? They have migration tools for existing frameworks...

I cobbled a system together from existing options. I may however - build my own 'alike and open source it after all this.

Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#58

Post by jbail »

garry wrote: post #44
jbail wrote: post #31

How can anyone believe this will hold true? Especially coming from the founders of Posterous who sold out and then shuttered their service? Was Posterous created to not be sustainable? If so, then Posterous's users were duped from the get go into using something that the founders knew wasn't sustainable and would eventually disappear. That's not a good way to treat users and it surely doesn't inspire confidence in th…

When I started working on Posterous in 2008, I intended to work on it forever. It didn't work out that way, and I left in January of 2011. It was a venture-funded company by then and we were committed to super-growth, not sustainability. We never started charging for the product. Posthaven is the result of my experience with that. I know the world needs a simple, clean, well-lit, easy place to post. One that doesn't…

On the one hand, you have street cred for building an awesome product which inspires confidence that your next product will be awesome too. I don't doubt it will be awesome.

But on the other hand, you did accept VC funding for Posterous (I'm assuming nobody was holding a gun to your head and forced you to do it), and for whatever reason you then left and moved onto other projects.

Now you are saying you will never sell out, will never lose focus and will stick around forever. Isn't that like a politician promising they won't ever raise taxes? "Ever" is just a really strong word. Life happens. Priorities change. Heck, most marriages don't even last forever.

That said...

I believe you. I think you're telling the truth about how you actually feel right now and what your plans for the business are right now. It's just that right now only lasts an instant.

Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#59

Post by ChuckMcM »

Its an interesting proposition, but fundamentally broken. Lets say you build it (and frankly I think a better course here would have been something based on the app.net model rather than WP Engine model) and its "successful" what does that mean to you?

Here is the challenge, there are too many scenarios where you don't want to be.

#1) "SPLOGGING" or some random thing becomes the new thing which all the cool kids are doing. You've got just enough customers to keep you in Ramen so you're committed to working until you're 70 and can augment your income with Social Security to honor this commitment to those few.

#2) You've spent 20 years maintaining the service, answering the same questions, fighting the same fires, dealing with the same sort of "Chrome v286 can't display tri-graphs properly without mime support from the replacement for nginx" kinds of problems.

#3) Its wildly successful and someone offers to make you a billionaire if you sell it to them?

In contrast I like the foundation idea. Foundations don't get tired, they don't get tempted, they just execute against their created principals. A foundation with an endowment that runs a service which supplies a voice for bloggers for a computed value which is not to exceed 15% of the operating cost of the service. That is a durable kind of construction, the people in it are just employees, they turn over like students in a college or wait staff at a restaurant. Its a chunk of money, controlled by a legal document, implemented by a management structure, to create a service in perpetuity.

Don't build a business and promise not to sell it, build an institution that is self contained.

Re: Posterous cofounders create a replacement: Posthaven

#60

Post by jbail »

qeorge wrote: post #54
jbail wrote: post #31

How can anyone believe this will hold true? Especially coming from the founders of Posterous who sold out and then shuttered their service? Was Posterous created to not be sustainable? If so, then Posterous's users were duped from the get go into using something that the founders knew wasn't sustainable and would eventually disappear. That's not a good way to treat users and it surely doesn't inspire confidence in th…

the founders of Posterous who sold out and then shuttered their service Seriously? Just gonna throw 'em under the bus like that? Friends like these.. Its time to stop trotting out this meme that the alternative to an "aquihire" was a sustainable business. Sometimes you've got to fish or cut bait. Ad hominem aside, trust should never be required for a good agreement. PostHaven has made a great start by killing any acq…

There's nothing wrong with selling out. I assume Posterous was founded to make a profit at some point and selling out allowed them to do that. I'm actually 100% okay with that. I was merely calling out that "never selling out" is a strange proposal coming from someone with a track record for selling out...on the day that this former sold out service announces it is shutting down forever.

It might just be bad timing to announce the next project more than anything.

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