Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

dealbook.nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#61

Post by jlarocco »

AlexMuir wrote: post #23
nirvana wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at the cost of production, and then the price and assuming that all of the space between the two is profit, and seem to be implying that somehow it is a ripoff. What you're not considering is the value to the customer. The incremental cost of a copy of Microsoft Office (with electronic delivery they cut out virtually all of their manufacturing cost) is close to zero. Probably 12p as well. Yet Microsoft…

Ketchup is a physical product with raw material costs which requires physical storage and delivery, and must be distributed through intermediaries. It also has a shelf life, and ingredients that fluctuate in price seasonally. Your comparison is about as sensical as me complaining I can't type an essay using 100 bottles of ketchup. However, my points are that a) we routinely pay 10x the 'value' of food products, and b…

Your complaint doesn't make any sense.

How much a person will pay for something determines its "value" to them. If a person will pay $10 for a bottle of ketchup, then it doesn't matter what the production cost was, the value they received was at least $10.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#62

Post by freehunter »

AlexMuir wrote: post #23
nirvana wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at the cost of production, and then the price and assuming that all of the space between the two is profit, and seem to be implying that somehow it is a ripoff. What you're not considering is the value to the customer. The incremental cost of a copy of Microsoft Office (with electronic delivery they cut out virtually all of their manufacturing cost) is close to zero. Probably 12p as well. Yet Microsoft…

Ketchup is a physical product with raw material costs which requires physical storage and delivery, and must be distributed through intermediaries. It also has a shelf life, and ingredients that fluctuate in price seasonally. Your comparison is about as sensical as me complaining I can't type an essay using 100 bottles of ketchup. However, my points are that a) we routinely pay 10x the 'value' of food products, and b…

Well the alternative is to make it yourself. If there's no one else selling it for what you perceive the value to be, then you have to do it. The question is, how much will it cost you to make ketchup yourself, in both dollars and in time? And then ask yourself is it worth the time and money to make it yourself, or do you get more value from buying it at the store?

For 99% of consumers, $2 is a value because it's less expensive than making it themselves. It doesn't matter how much it cost Heinz to make.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#63

Post by specialist »

AlexMuir wrote: post #6

Over the last few months I've been noticing a lot of adverts for Heinz products on the radio. They go like this: "When I was younger dad would take us out for fish and chips. We'd walk along the canal and feed the ducks, even in the rain. Then I'd unwrap the bag, with the steam rising, and squirt on a dollop of ketchup. And, like always, it has to be Heinz." I'm always amazed at the ability of brands to sell £0.20 pr…

I, for one, get what you mean by "value".

Pedantics are not making a distinction between price and value.

To illustrate: how many eggs would you barter for a bottle of ketchup? Barter, as in there is no price signal.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#64

Post by TylerE »

Evernoob wrote: post #37
nicholassmith wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there was a reddit where someone said they'd worked in a restaurant and they'd seen the ketchup checks happening.

What's the penalty if you get caught? Restaurants usually just say it's "ketchup" without mentioning that it's Heinz. What can Heinz actually do to you if you buy a bottle of their stuff and fill it with something else?

To hazard a guess, removal of bulk purchasing rights? Force them to buy sealed bottles at retail pricing.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#65

Post by olalonde »

AlexMuir wrote: post #6

Over the last few months I've been noticing a lot of adverts for Heinz products on the radio. They go like this: "When I was younger dad would take us out for fish and chips. We'd walk along the canal and feed the ducks, even in the rain. Then I'd unwrap the bag, with the steam rising, and squirt on a dollop of ketchup. And, like always, it has to be Heinz." I'm always amazed at the ability of brands to sell £0.20 pr…

> "When I was younger dad would take us out for fish and chips. We'd walk along the canal and feed the ducks, even in the rain. Then I'd unwrap the bag, with the steam rising, and squirt on a dollop of ketchup. And, like always, it has to be Heinz."

Reminds me a great scene from Mad Men http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suRDUFpsHus

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#66

Post by bjourne »

adestefan wrote: post #44
bjourne wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP is assuming it is a ripoff because you can buy other producers ketchup for half the price of "brand-name" Heinz ketchup. I doubt many people would tell the difference between Heinz and something else in a double-blind test. And if they can it is because the better tasting ketchup contains more sugar which anyway is bad. Same thing with jeans, you cant see the difference (unless they have the brand printed on t…

I'm guessing that you'd be surprised by the number of people that would be able to pick out the Heinz ketchup in a double blind test. I know people that refuse the ketchup at McDonalds specifically because it's not Heinz.

Found this:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/10/taste-test-the-best-ketch... http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id1481-ketchup-taste-test.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/13/the-best-ketchup_n_... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387285/Red-faced-He...

and many more taste tests. Not to say that not many people honestly prefer Heinz ketchup, but there seem to be no empirical evidence proving that Heinz would be the "best" ketchup.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#67

Post by huherto »

alanctgardner2 wrote: post #36
huherto wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you have an economy of scale. 5 people. For me, I think it is cheaper just to buy at the super market and buy ready meals.

As a bonus, you get lots of tasty horse!

:) I don't mind eating horse as long as it has a good taste.

Having grown in a place with very good beef, I am very picky for beef. When I buy a steak I prefer to pay a little more. It is not that expensive considering I am only one person.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#68

Post by adestefan »

bjourne wrote: post #66
adestefan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that you'd be surprised by the number of people that would be able to pick out the Heinz ketchup in a double blind test. I know people that refuse the ketchup at McDonalds specifically because it's not Heinz.

Found this: http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/10/taste-test-the-best-ketch... http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id1481-ketchup-taste-test.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/13/the-best-ketchup_n_... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387285/Red-faced-He... and many more taste tests. Not to say that not many people honestly prefer Heinz ketchup, but there seem to be no empirical evidence proving that Heinz would be…

I never said it was the best. I just said that people could pick out Heinz. It has a very distinct taste.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#69

Post by lutusp »

ricardobeat wrote: post #59
lutusp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're using Heinz' trademark to sell a different product they can sue you easy. No. If you're using the Heinz trademark in such a way as to confuse and mislead the public, then they can sue you. Otherwise probably not. Consider the example of Apple Computer and Apple Music (once owned by the Beatles). Two businesses, no conflict, so no lawsuit. Once Sun Computer threatened to sue me because I had a Web page nam…

The different product the parent mentioned is still ketchup. The scenario is replacing the ketchup in a Heinz bottle with ketchup from another brand, not selling "Heinz Cola" or something.

My post showed that the OP was wrong -- it showed that using a trademarked name is not in and of itself actionable. There has to be a basis for action apart from the simple fact that the names are the same.

Re: Berkshire and 3G Capital to Buy Heinz for $23 Billion

#70

Post by ricardobeat »

lutusp wrote: post #69
ricardobeat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The different product the parent mentioned is still ketchup. The scenario is replacing the ketchup in a Heinz bottle with ketchup from another brand, not selling "Heinz Cola" or something.

My post showed that the OP was wrong -- it showed that using a trademarked name is not in and of itself actionable. There has to be a basis for action apart from the simple fact that the names are the same.

Taken out of context, you're completely right.
Post reply on HN