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Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

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Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that people usually misinterpret their experiences where psychedelics and religion are concerned. However it's worth noting that in striving to create and discover interesting things one becomes vulnerable to all manner of possible obsessions and addictions -- most call it going 'crazy' (e.g. Beethoven, van Gogh, Tesla, Michelangelo, Schumann, John Nash and presumably many who ceased to function altogether in…

One wonders, for example, if the Beatles or Steve Jobs, notwithstanding their hard work, could ever have become what they did if they hadn't also taken LSD at some point. Honestly? I think that people who start using these drugs end up giving them too much credit. At some point, they start attributing all interesting or creative thoughts they have to the use of drugs when, while the drug experiences played a role, th…

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Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#82
post #5

I note that "It's like tripping your balls off on LSD" is missing from the list. But, funny thing: It's the most accurate. Instead you get a bunch of gobbledygook about death, eternity, and direct messages from god. The fact that you might just be having an episode of impaired cognition does not actually enter your brain. Let's not make this more complicated than it is.

The fact that you might just be having an episode of impaired cognition does not actually enter your brain.

It depends. I agree that it should. That said that realization doesn't make it less spiritual. Experiencing a different reality, seeing through different eyes, isn't that the quintessential spiritual experience?

We believe what we see. If one never experiences a different point of view, one might continue to believe her limited window to the world is the truth.

Experiencing other realities can help subjects realize how subjective things are. How to form a perception, imaginary fluff is added to fill the gaps. Like your comment.

It's not a silver bullet. One has to be curious, and brave enough to second guess the ego, which is probably one of the most challenging things we face (and might define how and how well we can last as a race). But it doesn't do us any good to underestimate the spiritual power of psychedelics.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60mg seems like it would kill someone.

Apparently Aldous Huxley's wife injected him with a lethal dose of LSD -- heroic-dosed directly into this

I wonder if Steve Jobs went out the same way. The quotes of his final moments sound like he was tripping off _something_

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#84
post #6

Try reading this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DZEWF8 for another point of view on LSD and the impact it has.

I tend to think of these things as karmic accelerators. The karma that would usually ripen over 2 years is, instead, experienced in 12 hours. If that karma is negative, that might take the form of an immediate psychotic crisis instead of some longer-to-unfold variety that might, due to time, be more manageable. My personal belief is that, moreso than any religious belief, it's important to manage the karma we experie…

"I tend to think of these things as karmic accelerators. The karma that would usually ripen over 2 years is, instead, experienced in 12 hours."

That might play a role (assuming there is such a thing as karma). However, I think there's a lot more to it.

Psychedelics can be used constructively or destructively, therapeutically, religiously, or recreationally. They can be used with positive intention, negative intention, or no particular intention. They can be used in a safe, pleasant setting, in indifferent settings, or in a scary, unpleasant setting. You could use them alone or with friends, strangers, with wise, knowledgable, trusted guides, or in a mix of any of the above. The person using them may not know what to expect, or might be well educated on the effects of psychedelics. The person might be very experienced or this might be their first trip. The dose of the substance might be small or large. The substance may be pure or impure. The person might fight against the effects of the substance or give in. They may have great respect for the substance or have a very casual or cavalier attitude towards it.

All of these factors and more can greatly affect what happens during the experience. To reduce it all to karma or any other single factor is way too simplistic.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#85
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always thought LSD works in this way: Your brain gets data, and has models of how all the data fits together. For example, if you look at someone you don't know, your brain will get the data "appearance" and plug it into the model "assorted stereotypes" and get out some expectations about who that stranger is. What LSD does is perturb those models of how data fits together. If your models are in line with real…

I disagree, if only because I think some people diverge farther from reality when they take these drugs. I know some people who've gone from "slightly weird" to derelict insanity because of them. If a person's already on a bad course, then psychedelics (under typical recreational use patterns) are going to throw this person farther out into space. The negative experience, in this case, isn't that person being ripped…

Could be, I'll admit I don't have much experience in this arena. I used the word perturb deliberately though, because it does not necessarily have to make you come closer to reality.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#86
post #62
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anything with the phrase (paraphrasing) "but I must warn you, you must be surrounded by evolved people" sounds so incredibly condescending and pretentious it really shows how these people see themselves as superior to others That's actually the complete opposite of what he said. Your paraphrase and the rest of your post was full of transference. I don't know what bad experiences you had with stoners and/or hippies,…

I think he was specifically targeting the use of the word 'evolved' instead of, say, 'experienced' (as in people who have tripped balls before).

Plenty of crazy people have experience tripping on LSD. That does not mean they have the experience with dealing with LSD in the way that is really god for you, your mind, your soul.

Evolved is an appropriate word in every respect. I suspect that those who have some mental knee-jerk against it have not done LSD too much.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently Aldous Huxley's wife injected him with a lethal dose of LSD -- heroic-dosed directly into this

His dose was 100 micrograms IM. That's nowhere near lethal for an oral dose.

She actually gave him two 100μg intramuscular doses on his deathbed, spaced several hours apart.

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/03/most-beautiful-death.ht...

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#88
post #5

I note that "It's like tripping your balls off on LSD" is missing from the list. But, funny thing: It's the most accurate. Instead you get a bunch of gobbledygook about death, eternity, and direct messages from god. The fact that you might just be having an episode of impaired cognition does not actually enter your brain. Let's not make this more complicated than it is.

Anything with the phrase (paraphrasing) "but I must warn you, you must be surrounded by evolved people" sounds so incredibly condescending and pretentious it really shows how these people see themselves as superior to others, like your friend who travels a lot and brings it up all the time. Except his stories are rational and meaningful, while stories about tripping balls are so subjective, they're meaningless. Yes,…

>Yes, I'm sure it was a positive experience, but the idea that you can learn wisdom and maturity via chemistry, well, that idea never panned out. Instead you get the typical empty-head drug talk about "seeing god" and "being nothing." And for all the elaborate salesmanship, what do these people get in the end? They're extremely ineloquent and whatever wisdom is purported to be there, just doesn't seem to be there.

Psychedelics give an empirical experience that is undeniable but most people don't have the cognitive constructs to interpret that experience in a logically consistent way. Take for example the idea of frequencies. To me a shift in perspective is like tuning into a different frequency. It's a metaphor that conveys the many alleged isomorphisms between these two phenomena. But to someone who doesn't have this logical background or frame of mind will take a syncretic interpretation like beings literally giving off vibrations and perspective literally having the attribute of frequency. As Sam Harris says, taking psychedelics is like getting into a sling shot, you don't really know where it's going to lead for any given person. They will give you "trans-rational" experiences but you still end up interpreting that experience through whatever cognitive constructs you already hold. If you're a fundamentalist christian then you're going to interpret the experience through those constructs. If you're an atheist you're going to interpret it through those constructs.

The most striking aspect of the psychedelic experience to me is the isomorphisms that present themselves. I start seeing one-to-one mappings between different phenomena(real or not). This hyperawareness of morphisms extends into the visions where every aspect of the vision correspond to some meaning. It's an amazing experience that isn't so easily dismissed.

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#89
post #68

I take psychedelics on a regular basis. Usually a couple of times a month. Although I've done several hundred micrograms (there is really no way of knowing) of LSD at once, I also really enjoy experimenting with smaller doses and casually micro-dosing on work days. I happen to be a software engineer and try to apply my knowledge of "machines" to the psychedelic experience. While I don't believe in anything supernatur…

> I would speculate that LSD turns on System 2 where normally my System 1 brain would give me an immediate response.

As far as I've read, LSD is, surprisingly, just a serotonin agonist, similar to anti-depressants or MDMA. (Technically, it's a non-selective serotonin agonist, and it does this by reversing the chemical reactions that take serotonin apart, to basically "un-use-up" serotonin you've already spent--which might explain its differing experiential effects--but in the end it still means "more serotonin in the brain.")

Now, the two things serotonin has been heavily implicated for in neurology, are pleasure (though not reward; that's dopamine), and neurogenesis: serotonin is basically released when something "feels good" in a sensual way--something looks aesthetically pleasing, something tastes delicious, etc.--as a signal to the rest of your brain to backtrack to what caused this stimulus to happen, and build up the neurons involved. Basically, if I find some tasty berries while foraging, reinforce the memory of the walk I took to get to the berries. [This effect can be harnessed: consume a bit of some fat-saturated food right after you study something, if you want to remember it better.]

But LSD, MDMA, and other drugs that stimulate serotonin release, can have psychedelic effects well beyond what you'd expect from "remembering things better." This is because the reaction to serotonin, neurogenesis, goes way beyond sensible memory formation. It takes any spikes in electrochemical activity that are going on in the brain at the time, and says "that: build up the synapse for that." And, of course, neurons have an underlying level of noise, that usually gets buried under actual cognition--so, when you turn the "gain" up on what "becomes brain cells", suddenly you start forming 'concepts' for ideas that are made of nothing at all--the feeling of seeing shared properties between things that have none. Which would indeed, likely, be best described as "a trip."

Of course, this also informs the other thing people--especially those in creative fields--say about LSD: that it's a life-altering experience, quite foundational for later productive work. This is basically because pushing up the "noise floor," if you have a lot of potential ideas lurking just below the surface as potential connections you haven't made between concepts, ready to be exploited--they'll get wired together by the non-selective flood of serotonin too. But, unlike the nodes for "the purpleness of music" or what-have-you, these nodes will actually self-reinforce once created--that is, they're useful to have, so you'll keep using them--so they'll stick around, whereas the other synapses will just get their reactivity scaled back down when it turns out how purple a song is doesn't have any causal impact on anything else. :)

Re: Massive Dosing - the LSD Thumbprint

#90
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I did 2 hits of acid, I had the exact opposite experience of seeing God. The fact that such a tiny amount of a mere chemical could effect my "soul" so profoundly was proof positive that the soul is completely material. I already believed this intellectually, but this experience solidified this knowledge into my very being. So personally, I would recommended experimenting with a psychedelic or two for those who w…

"When I did 2 hits of acid, I had the exact opposite experience of seeing God. The fact that such a tiny amount of a mere chemical could effect my "soul" so profoundly was proof positive that the soul is completely material." Your so-called "soul" may in fact be "completely material", but I don't think what you describe above proves it. There was a famous mystic who once said something like, "when you put a lit match…

> Finally, I'm not a physicist, but from what I've read, even physicists now have a lot of trouble defining "matter" as such.

As someone with physics training I do not see physicists having this trouble.

> I don't think they even use the term much at all anymore.

Most the physicists I know use it often.

Please be a little more careful when spreading information you are not sure about. The best way in my opinion is to be specific, give concrete examples, and/or give specific resources that you drew your conclusion from; preferably resources with concise explanations, more people will look into them that way and get back to you with their analysis of the source, it's like getting a free tutor.

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