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Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

johannakoll.posterous.com

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Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#121

Post by Claudus »

jseliger wrote: post #83

>A talk at a conference showing girls in bikinis. An API presentation from a sponsor featuring ladies in bras. A demo at a hack day with a slide of women in underwear. A business model canvas workshop using a strip club as an example to illustrate the tool. These are just a few examples of casual sexism I've experience at (tech) events. Where does sexy end and sexism begin? I too am against sexism (who isn't?), but m…

I agree, can you really do sexy without sexism?

Is using sex inherently bad?

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#122

Post by monochromatic »

9392732 wrote: post #62
monochromatic wrote: post #9

Q: How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb? A: That is NOT funny. In seriousness though, she sort of does have a point. Women at these types of thing are pretty outnumbered, and making them uncomfortable with stuff like this isn't very... gentlemanly.

I find it offensive that you are stereotyping a way of behaving (being gentlemanly) by someone's sex. Delete this comment you sexist pig

I still hold doors for women too. Time to take me out back and shoot me.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#123

Post by singular »

jseliger wrote: post #83

>A talk at a conference showing girls in bikinis. An API presentation from a sponsor featuring ladies in bras. A demo at a hack day with a slide of women in underwear. A business model canvas workshop using a strip club as an example to illustrate the tool. These are just a few examples of casual sexism I've experience at (tech) events. Where does sexy end and sexism begin? I too am against sexism (who isn't?), but m…

So do you suggest that the way women are represented + put to use in the media/marketing is okay? Just because X is the case, doesn't make X okay.

There's an obvious point being made when a slide with women clad in bikinis is shown at a geeky male-dominated conference. Do you think that's about some women looking sexy? And what do you think about the contrast between those slides and the technical ones? Do you not think doing that expresses an opinion about women's place in technology?

Personally I find what marketing does to women both when advertising to them and advertising using them utterly despicable.

I think you're muddying the waters in quite a weaselly way here, and it makes me feel uneasy. We shouldn't repress sexiness (whatever the hell that would mean), but this is blatantly nothing to do with that. Nothing.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#124

Post by vannevar »

coldtea wrote: post #59
DanBC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places > I mean, where does this political correctness stop It seems really obvious to me. At work, at a conference, you don't tell racist, sexist, ableist etc jokes. What you do outside work is up to you. (But, if you do it outside work and in public it may complicate things if you have a work related discrimination problem.) > political correct…

> "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.

We're not talking about criminalizing the behavior, so freedom of speech doesn't enter into the matter. The author is trying to change the market response to the behavior, by pointing out that it has a destructive aspect that many people (particularly men, who dominate the tech industry) may not be conscious of. One reason that we have freedom of speech is that it permits challenges to orthodoxy, and in this case the orthodox position being challenged is that sexist jokes are OK at professional conferences.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#125

Post by TheCapn »

I recall reading this quote recently:

  "Just because you're offended, it doesn't mean you're right" ― Ricky Gervais
Now, I don't feel it is appropriate for the article, but as an overall discussion on political correctness it does. The people that are fighting a legitimate battle against sexism, racism, and other prejudices have a hard time being taken seriously because there is so much noise.

When almost every complaint is more about censorship or silencing opposition those who are battling for basic human rights get painted under a broad stroke that belittles their actions and efforts.

Again, I'm not saying the author of this article is wrong; I can't even say firmly whether I support it or not, the jury is out on it.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#126

Post by dasil003 »

coldtea wrote: post #111
coldtea wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> George Carlin famously proved this with a rape joke. Famously? People have been making jokes about farse worse matters than rape for millenia. From war, to incurable illness, to genocide, to torture, to the plague, everything has been made into the subject of a joke. It might be a novel concept for a prudish, politically correct section society, but it's historically true.

> What does fame have to do with novelty? Nothing. It has to do with the "proved" part. Something known to be true man for millennia does not get "proved".

Okay, thank you for derailing my point with an utterly pointless semantic quibble.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#127

Post by klodolph »

jseliger wrote: post #83

>A talk at a conference showing girls in bikinis. An API presentation from a sponsor featuring ladies in bras. A demo at a hack day with a slide of women in underwear. A business model canvas workshop using a strip club as an example to illustrate the tool. These are just a few examples of casual sexism I've experience at (tech) events. Where does sexy end and sexism begin? I too am against sexism (who isn't?), but m…

> Sexism in tech and the workplace are real problems, but I don't think a slide with a woman in underwear is a good example.

You're dismissing a real problem here. Sexism is not isolated to acts of discrimination, it is a part of culture. Fixing sexism is not just about stopping discrimination, it is about changing culture. We bombard kids with pictures of sexy women in bikinis and men in lab coats, and wonder why there aren't as many women in tech even though they're so damn competent at it. Showing pictures of women in underwear in tech slides sends the message, "women are for sex, not tech". Don't hyperbolize this by calling it the "asexual approach".

Imagine putting on a clip from a minstrel show in your presentation. Horrifying, right? But you're not actually being "racist", you're just being "racy". Maybe you think the "aracist" approach is impractical. Maybe a bit of harmless playfulness about "negroes singing songs and working on the railroad" should be encouraged. After all, in American corporations, white folk are routinely told that they cross the line when they compliment a black man on his natural sense of rhythm, or his large penis.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#128

Post by healsdata »

atc wrote: post #91

> A talk at a conference showing girls in bikinis. An API presentation from a sponsor featuring ladies in bras. A demo at a hack day with a slide of women in underwear. A business model canvas workshop using a strip club as an example to illustrate the tool. Do any of those match the definition of [sexism]( https://www.google.com/search?q=define+sexism&ie=utf-8&#... )? > sex·ism > Noun > Prejudice, stereotyping, or d…

Except, like most words, sexism has multiple definitions and you've conveniently plucked the one that makes your point.

Here's the second from Merriam-Webster: "behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex"

These behaviors continue to push the idea that women are eye candy.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#129

Post by rmrfrmrf »

flexie wrote: post #7

People laugh when they hear a "sexist" joke because it's funny. Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places - I am not sure - but there should be room for jokes about genders somewhere, right? I mean, where does this political correctness stop?

Kudos for derailing the discussion from one about the objectification of women through imagery to a discussion about gender-based humor. I'm honestly a little surprised that so many people here fell for it--it's more or less the oldest trick in the book.
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