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'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

theaustralian.com.au

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Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#101

Post by doktrin »

Volpe wrote: post #38
panacea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. It's not. Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries.

> You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. No, I don't think that. > Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries. The US opened this can of worms and created an imbalance in the world. North Korea is surrounded by nuclear enabled countries (China, Russia, South Korea, and Japan). As an aside: What exactly is 'unstab…

This manner of moral equivocating is disturbing. Even insinuating that the US is somehow on par with North Korea on the whole "regional destabilizing" scale is frankly a little insane.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#102

Post by SoftwareMaven »

niggler wrote: post #90
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really comes down to the country's leadership. All of the other points in other comments here are certainly valid, but he feels that NK's leaders are more likely to be willing to push the button and the US is in range. What I can't say is if this belief in NK's leaders is based on actual intelligence or some sort or just his opinion. Given their willingness to take pot-shots at SK, I know I'm concerned about this.

Has that sentiment changed since Kim Jong-un ascended to power?

His view hasn't. My reading of it is that is because Kim Jong-un was raised in the same megalomaniac environment and the supporting power structure hasn't changed.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#103

Post by Volpe »

untog wrote: post #73
zensavona wrote: post #63

These kinds of "you guys can't have nukes because they're bad, but we'll keep some on hand because we're responsible" disputes that the USA seems to love force me think "where are all the adults?"

This kind of thinking is disappointing. North Korea is a dictatorship that is irrational enough to starve it's citizens- if it has that little care for it's people, why wouldn't it launch some nukes? Is the US perfect? No. Is it a democratic, accountable country? Largely, yes. There is no perfect system of government, and people should stop pretending that everyone is on the same moral level.

That's misrepresenting US to suit US propaganda.

The US leveled two countries in order to assassinate someone in a third country. It wasn't held accountable at all.

You are right, morally they are not on the same level, but not the way you think they aren't.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#104

Post by SoftwareMaven »

Volpe wrote: post #94
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really comes down to the country's leadership. All of the other points in other comments here are certainly valid, but he feels that NK's leaders are more likely to be willing to push the button and the US is in range. What I can't say is if this belief in NK's leaders is based on actual intelligence or some sort or just his opinion. Given their willingness to take pot-shots at SK, I know I'm concerned about this.

But we're safe right? Those defence satellites worked?

That part I have no real knowledge of. I'm guessing whatever information he has about it is still classified.

However, the fact that he is worried says something to me about the answer to the question.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#105

Post by mhuffman »

niggler wrote: post #88
streptomycin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Axis of Evil included North Korea along with those two countries.

If I recall correctly, the Bush administration's list of countries in the Axis of Evil, sorted by perceived evil from most to least evil, was : 1) Iran 2) Iraq 3) North Korea North Korea was not the top threat at the time.

North Korea was not the top threat that we could realistically do anything about.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#106

Post by Volpe »

ryanhuff wrote: post #54
Volpe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is an example of why this kind of propaganda works. People start hating another country they've (likely) never been to, and likely have no understanding of their motives.

I assume that you know that the OPer has no personal linkage to, or understanding of, the Korean situation? Or did you make a convenient assumption?

You'll note my use of the word "likely".

Happy to be refuted.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#107

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

rtrunck wrote: post #68
cpeterso wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is North Korea's motivation? Given the UN's predicable past responses, North Korea must gain some political benefit from these UN responses.

Foreign aid so citizens of North Korea can eat.

The longer historical context is that in the 90's the PRNK agreed to hand over their future nuclear power infrastructure to us, in exchange for abandoning a weapons program. Domestic political winds shifted, and the USA chose not to honor the agreement by congress strangling funds. Instead we paid them oil as a substitute. Things broke down further in the Bush 'axis of evil' period.

PRNK's behavior right now seems to be about pushing the USA back to something like the prior agreement, likely because they see the Obama administration as more open to this possibility. Honestly this would probably be a win for everyone, particularly if it included opening up a labor trade between north and south Korea. North Korea is impoverished, but their citizenry is actually quite well educated (if indoctrinated). If economic sanctions were weakened, there's little question that access to north Korean labor would be in high demand globally. There are a lot of challenges to making this happen. Possibly the hardest are social, and will simply take the passing of generations to ease.

There are also probably important PRC PRNK relationship dimensions to all this as well, of which I'm ignorant.

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#108

Post by rooshdi »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #85
arcadeparade wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has nuclear weapons in South Korea, and they are the only country to actually use them. If they withdrew then maybe the two Koreas could negotiate peace.

WARNING: in this post I am going to be an "asshole", I make no apologies. I am going to make this bold prediction: you are utterly ignorant of North Korean history, even in broad strokes. And this has allowed you to form utterly irrational and indeed insane opinions of that country. Please stop commenting about the subject until you correct your ignorance. Or do you wish to challenge my assumptions by producing exten…

WARNING: The following contents contain "assholic" statistics:

http://costsofwar.org/ http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#109

Post by Volpe »

doktrin wrote: post #101
Volpe wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to think having nuclear weapons is some sort of national right or something. No, I don't think that. > Nobody wants an unstable, belligerent, nasty dictatorship to have the ability to nuke other countries. The US opened this can of worms and created an imbalance in the world. North Korea is surrounded by nuclear enabled countries (China, Russia, South Korea, and Japan). As an aside: What exactly is 'unstab…

This manner of moral equivocating is disturbing. Even insinuating that the US is somehow on par with North Korea on the whole "regional destabilizing" scale is frankly a little insane.

Really, you don't think the US is a destabilising element in Asia?

They were involved in 2 wars that had no relevance to US security, purely for ideological reasons... They are still involved in one of those wars... They lost the other one...

Great stabiliser!

Re: 'Artificial' earthquake detected in North Korea may be nuclear test

#110

Post by kamaal »

cpeterso wrote: post #58
mikegioia wrote: post #5

So when they did this in 2006, the UN issued weapons sanctions against North Korea[1]. Then when they did it again in 2009, the UN issued more sanctions[2] that apparently NK considered an 'act of war'. From them, the world has intercepted a whopping 6 North Korean boats and 1 North Korean airplane. Aside from "issuing even more sanctions" what options are available to the UN? Good luck trying to send in a team of pe…

What is North Korea's motivation? Given the UN's predicable past responses, North Korea must gain some political benefit from these UN responses.

Never ever underestimate the power of being self sufficient military wise. You can pretty much do anything you want and get away if you are a nuclear power. And its not like North Korea is going to remain poor forever.

Look at UAE and Singapore, it takes little time to change the economic situation. A little years here and there, with China's and India's emergence on the world scene things can change pretty rapidly. To cut US's influence in Asia, North Korea is a indispensable asset.

Allies are not permanent and US's help to Japan and South Korea is not infinite. Geopolitical situations will always change and have always changed throughout history.

Given this situation, North Korea can be a big player in the future, now imagine having the military might in this situation. It can force unification of the Korean peninsula on its terms in the future.

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