I am involved in some FOIA at the moment. It seems to me thus far that, at least at times, the EU Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS) has been well meaning but have been actively sidelined by other, pro-American-outcome parts of the European beast. For example, see: http://www.asktheeu.org/en/body/edps
EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
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Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#22There are layers upon layers of problems here. 1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it. 2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea. 3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists t…
Actually most of the EU democracy processes are easy to understand. I'd like to see a European comment on the efficacy of their process. Most follow a proportional system, some follow a mix of proportional and single member single district (winner take all), and Great Britain is winner take all.
They also have much more party discipline. Somebody voting for a party knows the type of policies that party will enforce, and if people are not crazy for the policies being passed, the vote in a different party in the next election.
Also, I would argue that lobbying is more prevalent in the US. Low party discipline + the much greater "need" for money = more money influence.
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#23There are layers upon layers of problems here. 1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it. 2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea. 3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists t…
There are some pretty smart young people behind the Data Protection law, but these US lobbyists seem to want to water it down a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYsE6s2FFqI
In the video they also mention how they maybe get to talk to politicians once every 3 months (because of budget constraints) while lobbyists are there every day talking to them.
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Directives of the "EU overlords" have to be accepted by the Council of the European Union, which represents the "slave countries".
Oh, you mean the non-elected social club for European elites? Yeah, part of the problem.
The last time I checked ministers are part of national governments which are (indirectly, depending on the specific country) elected.
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#25There are layers upon layers of problems here. 1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it. 2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea. 3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists t…
Actually most of the EU democracy processes are easy to understand. I'd like to see a European comment on the efficacy of their process. Most follow a proportional system, some follow a mix of proportional and single member single district (winner take all), and Great Britain is winner take all. They also have much more party discipline. Somebody voting for a party knows the type of policies that party will enforce,…
> Most follow a proportional system, some follow a mix of proportional and single member single district (winner take all), and Great Britain is winner take all.
To clarify:
- all seats in the European Parliament are elected by proportional systems, either STV or list systems.
- the parliaments of EU member states are elected by a wide variety of systems, including list systems, STV, winner takes all (FPTP, in Britain), two-round winner takes all (France).
> They also have much more party discipline.
Are you talking about member states' parliaments here, or the EU parliament?
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#26There are layers upon layers of problems here. 1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it. 2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea. 3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists t…
> Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works
This is true. I'm trying to combat this (in the UK) with http://www.euroelection.co.uk/
> or feel like they have anything to do with it.
Which is why turnout is low and falling.
> These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues.
Hopefully the situation will be better in the EP after 2014, if more Pirates are elected (there are 2 at present). Then it will be a lot harder for lobbyists to baffle people with bullshit on internet and copyright issues.
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#27The audaciousness of taking those lobbyists' demands word-for-word and expecting nobody to find out in this day and age is pretty shocking.
I think this is overly optimistic. It assumes that politicians don't understand that what they're doing will likely become public knowledge.
That seems excessively generous, and suggests that these people are actually ignorant of the scrutiny under which their actions can and likely will be placed. I don't think that's likely, at least in most cases, if not all.
It seems much more likely to me that these people simply don't care what their constituents think. Perhaps that's not something people in the EU are accustomed to, but Americans have been enjoying this phenomenon for generations. Perhaps our lobbyists are just spreading this problem like a political plague; if you think of it that way, they're our own ship full of infected rats.
Sorry, guys. We don't want them here either, but we didn't intentionally send them over there (or, at least, we didn't vote for it).
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#28There are layers upon layers of problems here. 1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it. 2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea. 3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists t…
Actually most of the EU democracy processes are easy to understand. I'd like to see a European comment on the efficacy of their process. Most follow a proportional system, some follow a mix of proportional and single member single district (winner take all), and Great Britain is winner take all. They also have much more party discipline. Somebody voting for a party knows the type of policies that party will enforce,…
You are confusing the governance on the European (edit: EU -- see below) level with the governments on the national level.
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#29Somebody should make a kickstarter for political lobbying.
Then, somebody could start a project to raise funding for writing new patent laws, and based on funding thresholds there'd be a certain amount of lobbyist facetime with congresspeople, "draft legislation" provided, etc. Why should big companies be the only ones playing that game?
It'd be like the White House petition system, but with some results - even if they're just congressional awareness.
Re: EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually a lot of EU directives are relatively easy to read. It only gets complex and legalese when national governments transpose them into national law.
I'm not talking about the language. I mean that if you ask someone in Italy or Poland how reps get elected, what their job is, what sort of laws they can make, how they get enforced locally, how you can participate, etc., then they have no idea. It feels more like the American IRS than the Congress.
But then ask the same to those people of their own national governments, or political structure. Many don't understand how their own country works.
Should we abolish or get rid of national governments? Why are you holding the EU to a different standard?