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Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

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Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#101

Post by eduardordm »

kyro wrote: post #87

I think this is a sign of Microsoft's desperation to stay relevant. Most of the Surface reviews have spoken poorly about the device. Windows RT hasn't been well received. They've tried to revamp their entire image -- with new hardware, software, and extensive marketing -- with limited success. "Look at how cool our product is" hasn't worked for them, so they're resorting to "look at how terrible their product is." Yo…

I agree with you about microsoft.

But what I did not know is that google shopping was not on my side. I used that many times to find better prices, but it turns out the results are completely manipulated. You will find those who paid more in an ad auction, not really the best prices. In fact, they restrict price comparison for just a list of websites and are passing parameters about the click to that website, which obviously is an active actor in this process, read: it paid.

I feel betrayed by google, really.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#102

Post by heroic »

What I dont get is, how is a software scanning my email creepy? As it everyone scans every bloody email to seek out spam. Spam filters already use "known" spam styles to check for potential spam messages.

In this case they are scanning to show you ads. Pardon me if I am missing something, but I really don't understand wtf is wrong with people calling this creepy.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#103

Post by criley »

psbp wrote: post #88
junto wrote: post #32

If you login to Outlook.com (which is extremely slow btw), you'll also find the following settings page available from the bottom right cog icon: https://data.choice.microsoft.com/mydata/UserInterests Under 'My Data' it stores Bing Searches and takes guesses as to your 'Interests'. How does it do that exactly? Operationally, how different is Outlook.com a.k.a Hotmail, compared to Google? Both are free, and nothing is…

"Creepiness"? Are you a child? You seem to comprehend how Google runs its business and pays for its services. Isn't it incredibly ludicrous to call it creepy?

No, reading personal email to deliver advertisements is creepy. It's better than it used to be but we all remember seeing things like casket advertisements when an email mentioned dead code, etc etc.

It's creepy, and I would gladly pay google monthly to prevent them from abusing my privacy.

But Google doesn't want money from me, it wants to abuse my privacy. That's far more profitable.

It's unfortunate but too many services point to my gmail for me to be able to switch.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#104

Post by freehunter »

psbp wrote: post #88
junto wrote: post #32

If you login to Outlook.com (which is extremely slow btw), you'll also find the following settings page available from the bottom right cog icon: https://data.choice.microsoft.com/mydata/UserInterests Under 'My Data' it stores Bing Searches and takes guesses as to your 'Interests'. How does it do that exactly? Operationally, how different is Outlook.com a.k.a Hotmail, compared to Google? Both are free, and nothing is…

"Creepiness"? Are you a child? You seem to comprehend how Google runs its business and pays for its services. Isn't it incredibly ludicrous to call it creepy?

Creepiness is the term used by Google (Eric Schmidt) and repeated by Microsoft in the linked website.

Here's the source:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/01/animation...

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#105

Post by freehunter »

Tloewald wrote: post #94

Can you imagine how funny an anti-Microsoft ad campaign along the same lines would be? Microsoft is trying to start a gunfight and it's armed with a nerf axe. As a cynical admirer of Google I don't care for the way advertising drives everything it does, but I cannot remember the last time I noticed an ad in gmail (Twitter, for example, manages to be far worse while still appearing not to have a business model.) Meanw…

Where is the advertising and junkware built into Windows?

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#106

Post by ithkuil »

OGinparadise wrote: post #64
PaulMest wrote: post #51

It's unfortunate that the marketing folks at Microsoft are looking to take this stance to unbelievable levels. I would rather see relevant ads than irrelevant ads. I used to work at Microsoft. I heard second hand that some exec (I believe they said it was Ballmer) in the last couple of years made the decision that Microsoft would make privacy a competitive differentiator. This sounds great on the surface, but it has…

I hope that Microsoft does succeed in making privacy a competitive differentiator, but I feel they lack tact and common sense in many cases.. There is no love lost between them, and IMO Microsoft will get some traction because Google is desperate to increase revenue and keep their PE at over 20. Their shopping is 100% ads and probably 90% of most transactional query pages are ads. Search for a commercial item and you…

A sincere curiosity:

why do you think it would be in google's interest to bias search result ?

What kind of bias you expect exactly ? Showing paying customers first in search results? Or not showing results if there are similar ads to be displayed?

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#107

Post by quesera »

This is embarassingly sloppy, but I agree with the kernel of the message.

Microsoft says Google "goes through" your email to target ads, whereas outlook.com only "scans" your email for spam filtering. This is a valid contrast, destroyed by the bullshit phrasing.

The important difference for me is that spam filter criteria are common to 99% of all recipients. My personal set (if google even has personal blacklists) is not that interesting.

Valuable advertising keywords are much more personal, and a) can be used by the advertiser, along with other metadata, to glue together a profile about me that is quite personal (and unreviewable, unfixable, probably incorrect in annoying ways), and b) are almost certainly retained by Google in my ad-profile that is then used elsewhere on their properties...maybe I'm naive, but I assume they do not let email keywords cross pollinate into Adsense on the wider Internet...

Of course, I don't trust either one of them. The notion of storing my mail spool on anyone else's servers is unfathomably derelict to me. I recognize that I'm in the minority here.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#108

Post by lucb1e »

junto wrote: post #32

If you login to Outlook.com (which is extremely slow btw), you'll also find the following settings page available from the bottom right cog icon: https://data.choice.microsoft.com/mydata/UserInterests Under 'My Data' it stores Bing Searches and takes guesses as to your 'Interests'. How does it do that exactly? Operationally, how different is Outlook.com a.k.a Hotmail, compared to Google? Both are free, and nothing is…

Logging in to Gmail is slower than Outlook in my experience, it even got a loading bar. I got IE9 right now so I can't test it (I'm not at my own pc), but this is how it feels to me.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#109

Post by ithkuil »

StavrosK wrote: post #57
tzs wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offhand, I can't think of anything that algorithmic spam removal can do to compromise my privacy. I don't have to be careful around spam removal. Targeted ads, on the other hand, can provide a lot of information to the advertiser if I respond to the ad. If targeted advertising is showing up in my email, I have to make sure that I do not respond to the ads. Essentially, a targeted ad is a little privacy land mine that…

I've never accidentally clicked on an ad, I think they're pretty out of the way in that regard. If that's what worries you, sure. Otherwise, the fact that you want to respond to the ad can provide a lot of information to the advertiser. If you're worried about that, just don't respond.

Or if you are really interested in the product, just search for it again in incognito window, so that they cannot possibly relate the two campaigns (assuming you are worried the advertizer had a way to tell that the campaign has been clicked through a gmail ad, which afaik is not possible)

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#110

Post by freehunter »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #83
muro wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay for gmail and have no ads: http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6...

Here is perhaps a better link: http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html In general Google Apps is a great product for small-medium sized businesses. As is Office 365.

Google is horrible for a company's IT security team though. Very difficult to lock things down from a firewall level when Google won't tell you the IP addresses individual apps run on (say if I want to allow Google Hangouts but not Chrome Remote Desktop), and some of their apps won't work properly through a proxy or VPN. There's enough cases where Google has been unable/unwilling to help configure that someone could easily begin to question their value.

Google seemingly doesn't want you to allow access to one thing but not another; it's an all or nothing proposition. Their heavy use of load-balancing exacerbates this issue.

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