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Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

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Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#71

Post by OGinparadise »

StavrosK wrote: post #50
gtufano wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no. It's not the same thing. Scanning my content so that you make more money is different from scanning my content so that I get less spam. The second is a service. If you don't encrypt your email (almost nobody does it) every server serving your email can access the email text. The point is what they do with it. If they use it to make something useful for me (allowing me to read email) that's OK. Targeting ads…

You knew this when you signed up. Plus, it's not a privacy issue. No human is sitting there, reading your emails. How is the spam algorithm reading your emails fine from a privacy standpoint while the ads algorithm isn't?

How do you know Google doesn't create and store an ad profile based on what your email contents usually are? Example: StravosK is likely to have high cholesterol and too much debt.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#72

Post by muro »

Volpe wrote: post #34
StavrosK wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What issue, though? That your email is scanned by an algorithm to determine relevancy for ads? Guess what, your email is scanned by an algorithm on outlook.com too, to determine whether it's spam. It's exactly the same thing.

No it's not. Because I WANT spam protection... I don't want ads. Just like it's fine for an electrician to enter my house to fix a power point. It is NOT okay for anyone to enter my house in order to sell me random things.

You can pay for gmail and have no ads:

http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6...

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#73

Post by StavrosK »

OGinparadise wrote: post #71
StavrosK wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You knew this when you signed up. Plus, it's not a privacy issue. No human is sitting there, reading your emails. How is the spam algorithm reading your emails fine from a privacy standpoint while the ads algorithm isn't?

How do you know Google doesn't create and store an ad profile based on what your email contents usually are? Example: StravosK is likely to have high cholesterol and too much debt.

How do I know Microsoft (or any other provider) doesn't? This is a risk you accept when you give your data to third parties.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#74

Post by yk »

StavrosK wrote: post #16
twelvechairs wrote: post #8

Why should Google be exempt from criticism? I think its good that a big company like Microsoft is making this kind of privacy an issue.

What issue, though? That your email is scanned by an algorithm to determine relevancy for ads? Guess what, your email is scanned by an algorithm on outlook.com too, to determine whether it's spam. It's exactly the same thing.

It is not, a spamfilter tries to understand if the message is legitimate, while an ad injection algorithm tries to understand the message to extract your interests from it. One of the algorithms is actually trying to extract privacy relevant information, while in the case of a spamfilter any such data is just coincidental.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#75

Post by cowchase »

It's interesting to see major players beginning to compete on the level of privacy they offer to their users. "Personal information" has become one of the currencies on the web by which we "pay" for free services. Microsoft now seems to try a "low-cost" strategy to gain market share.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#76

Post by StavrosK »

yk wrote: post #74
StavrosK wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What issue, though? That your email is scanned by an algorithm to determine relevancy for ads? Guess what, your email is scanned by an algorithm on outlook.com too, to determine whether it's spam. It's exactly the same thing.

It is not, a spamfilter tries to understand if the message is legitimate, while an ad injection algorithm tries to understand the message to extract your interests from it. One of the algorithms is actually trying to extract privacy relevant information, while in the case of a spamfilter any such data is just coincidental.

So? Where's the breach? An algorithm knowing the subject of the message doesn't worry me, as long as all they do with it is display ads from the same broad category. If they're doing something they're not telling us, well, any other email provider could also be doing this.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#77

Post by undecisive »

huhtenberg wrote: post #7

So when DDG does it, it's awesome and ballsy. But when Microsoft does it, it's pathetic and scammy?

Maybe because DuckDuckGo differentiates themselves better. Microsoft is more of the same - maybe marginally better in one respect (allowing opt-out) but atrocious in many others - almost every article I've seen has had no trouble balancing the story with talk of Microsoft's past transgressions.

On the flip side, I agree that Google should allow you to opt out of this, but it's pretty easy to use any email client to access your gmail e.g. Thunderbird, Apple Mail, even (shudders) Outlook / Outlook Express

So the only thing those ads are actually paying for are Google's UI.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#79

Post by acchow »

tzs wrote: post #54
StavrosK wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What issue, though? That your email is scanned by an algorithm to determine relevancy for ads? Guess what, your email is scanned by an algorithm on outlook.com too, to determine whether it's spam. It's exactly the same thing.

Offhand, I can't think of anything that algorithmic spam removal can do to compromise my privacy. I don't have to be careful around spam removal. Targeted ads, on the other hand, can provide a lot of information to the advertiser if I respond to the ad. If targeted advertising is showing up in my email, I have to make sure that I do not respond to the ads. Essentially, a targeted ad is a little privacy land mine that…

In an odd twist, providing more information to the advertiser could also be doing you a service. The more information the advertisers have, the more targeted the ads, and thus a higher CPC. The increased revenue for Google can mean either more money for products for you (perpetuating the products->ads->products cycle) or the ability for them to show fewer ads.
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