It's somewhat encouraging to read the comments here and note that for a change they are not already overrun by aggressive apologists for the continuing misogyny in software development.
Speaking up
41–50 of 342 posts
Re: Speaking up
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regarding your second paragraph, I think it's primarily a clash of two situations: software development by its nature attracts men who are socially awkward, and the women that are attracted to software development tend not to be there for the attention. Software development has a broader appeal now than it did twenty years ago, and in spite of the numerous cases like this one, there seems to still be a growing popula…
I doubt women are generally in professional jobs "for the attention" & I don't think this kind of behaviour is limited to men who are socially awkward unfortunately. Gated communities still need moderation: someone has to decide whether or not to kick people out if they behave badly!
Everything women do, revolves around the acquisition of attention. The sooner you learn this, the better... young Horatio.
Re: Speaking up
#43Sorry about your treatment. :( (And here I go into down-vote territory... :D) Before I say anything, let me say clearly I am not sexist; I am a strong advocate of equal rights (key word: equal). Some of your attacks can definitely be attributed to sex, but it's bad propaganda just to throw them all in the sexism bucket, or treat sexism like it is the norm. I know several females in the industry who are not afraid of…
And how many speakers have porn created of them distributed during conferences? And when that happened would you expect at least a small percentage to secretly have a little laugh at it?
There was another post on the front-page just minutes ago called The Distress of the Privileged [1] and it makes the very good point that these things are about a difference of scale.
On the one hand we have one of the most high-profile of tweeters facing regular childish threats; on the other hand we have a not all that well known female presenter having to deal with porn 'of her' being distributed during speaking engagements.
[1] http://weeklysift.com/2012/09/10/the-distress-of-the-privile...
Re: Speaking up
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seriously. I roll my eyes at some of the white-knighting that goes when a woman is slighted on the Internet but holy crap I get nervous for my girlfriend who's a talented programmer and about to graduate with a CS degree. Is this kind of bullshit in store for her? Sheesh.
Are you sure you aren't confusing "white knight" for "person who doesn't appreciate seeing other people treated like shit"? I originally thought that phrase meant something like "Claiming to represent someone's position or speak for them when they can very well speak for themselves." But assuming that http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/white-knight is a credible source, that phrase actually refers to dudes who argue again…
Since when have gaping flaws in a concept been a deterrent against people trying to implement it?
Your typical Internet White Knight is most likely not explicitly aiming to get laid, but simply following the classical role model they've absorbed via Hollywood: women are weak and need to be defended, good men defend them (and get the girl in the end).
It can get a bit comical but the real problem is that it takes the form of personal defense in specific cases, and is focused on women. So males getting treated like shit are unlikely to get any help or even sympathy from a White Knight, and they're unlikely to spend any effort on actual solutions to a toxic atmosphere.
Re: Speaking up
#45Please, tell me, how would comments look if someone did the same thing, but for the guy? The sight of a bunch of guys rushing to fight sexism (often without even understanding what sexism is) and solve women's issues for them is amusing. This is not to say, that there are no problems. But the biggest problem I see is a knee-jerk reaction to anything involving gender or race. Sometimes assholes are just assholes and c…
It's interesting that you say "couldn't care less if their victim is a women or black person, or whatever".
Can you come up with a good example of this kind of extreme attacking of a white man? You say "How would this look for a guy", I honestly can't think of any examples where people go anywhere near as far trolling and harassing white men. I may of course just be forgetting some obvious cases.
Re: Speaking up
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see how criticising the formatting of the content without discussing the content adds anything. Was there a point you wanted to make ?
I am not convinced that her motives for posting this are genuine. This sort of deeply personal story has no business of being attached to the Resources and the FAQ pages on how to get her speak at your event.
The "deeply personal story" is about shit that went down in public. Things you might have seen happening because you saw her speak at a conference. It is perfectly reasonable to "attach" it to any "speaking on conferences"-stuff.
Re: Speaking up
#47Are there any high profile women in this industry who haven't been treated like shit in some way such as this? What a nasty bunch of people we are. Are we (developers) the douchey 80s guy of the 21st century?
If you think the developer community is bad, try advertising / media / sales.
Re: Speaking up
#48So apparently, she is a web designer (or a web design agency owner), but it takes an effort to find a link to an actual portfolio. There is the Resources page but it's full of her own photos from every angle. The About page is too full of important aspects of her professional background including how she takes her coffee (apparently 3rd most frequently asked question). I understand that she is the brand and she's pro…
This comment is wrong, but it can be a good starting point for what I want to say: it's very likely that in life people will pick on you for what you are. I've been tormented at various degrees because I'm short, or because I'm shy and introvert, or because I sort of like math. I mean I have been called a "pain in the ass" because I said that I don't like dubbed movies (I live in a country were dubbed movies are the norm). And all this in important settings like school and work. And not only by my peers, but also by teachers, boss and managers. But I'm not here to complain. What I want to say is that if you post photos of yourself and you are a nice lady, someone will pick on you for that. That's very sad, but it's the status quo. The hell if I know what are their reasons. But I know why they do it: because it's easy and it hurts. They don't pick on you for your work. It doesn't hurt that much and they could end helping you, pointing out one of your errors. But if it is your body, your beliefs, your personality they will do it. That's an easy bet.
So do I think that ladies shouldn't post beautiful photos? No of course, go on, you are hacking the system. You are getting a lot of good attention for that. But as always there are trade offs. A couple of weeks ago, here on HN someone complained because a young user posted something like: "I'm 14 and I developed an iPhone game". What's wrong with that? You did something and you want to advertise it. Saying that you are a young developer is a very catchy. And posting your photos is very eye-grabbing. Sort of refreshing after the n-th post about "beautiful typography" or whatever. Now, about the state of the industry. The only way to change things is for women to stick out and speak-up. Please don't hide. Soon or later things will change. I can imagine that 150 years ago, female teachers weren't as respected as men. Now, at least in my school experience, men were often the less respected one. While women were feared by students. Thing's will change, hopefully sooner than later.
Re: Speaking up
#49Are there any high profile women in this industry who haven't been treated like shit in some way such as this? What a nasty bunch of people we are. Are we (developers) the douchey 80s guy of the 21st century?
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Re: Speaking up
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seriously. I roll my eyes at some of the white-knighting that goes when a woman is slighted on the Internet but holy crap I get nervous for my girlfriend who's a talented programmer and about to graduate with a CS degree. Is this kind of bullshit in store for her? Sheesh.
Are you sure you aren't confusing "white knight" for "person who doesn't appreciate seeing other people treated like shit"? I originally thought that phrase meant something like "Claiming to represent someone's position or speak for them when they can very well speak for themselves." But assuming that http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/white-knight is a credible source, that phrase actually refers to dudes who argue again…
Your original thought matches my definition.