Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you ever been to UC Berkeley? As a current grad student here: it's a fantastic research university and a beautiful campus, but the undergraduate experience is terrible. Classes are giant and there's very little faculty/student interaction, because the focus of the faculty is, for better or for worse, not on undergraduate education. Yes, there are some incredible undergrads and some great opportunities for the 0.…
The US News rankings have a very negative incentivization for schools also. One of the things that my alma mater, Virginia Tech, used to do to (and I'm sure still does) is lure top tier students into their (admittedly great) engineering program. However, they then use a bootcamp style, much harder than necessary first year "weed out" program for the freshman engineering students. The effect is that 50% of the incomin…
Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
61–70 of 113 posts
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#62The currently most cited US college ranking is done by U.S News, which is heavily favored toward small private institutions from the east coast. I always find it irritating that a world renowned research power house such as UC Berkeley can't even make it into the top 20 ranking, where as schools such as Emory and Vanderbilt are ranked higher. It ALMOST feels like an east coast old money circle-jerk. I guess with the…
At the undergraduate level, however, the rankings measure something different. Essentially, they measure: 1) the test scores and grades of the incoming freshman class; 2) the reputation of the undergraduate program; 3) how much money (directly or indirectly) the school spends on undergraduates. As a big state school, Berkeley can't measure up in these categories.
Incidentally, I'm not sure the USNWR rankings are totally senseless in what they measure. For undergrad, I went to a big state research university with very highly ranked graduate engineering programs. For law school, I went to a private university whose undergraduate program was ranked in the top 20. While the two situations weren't directly comparable, I have to say that there is something to what USNWR measures. The experience of being a student at the big state MRU was terrible. Enormous freshman weed out classes, professors and TA's that didn't speak English, outdated facilities, etc. The experience at the private university was wonderful. Very supportive administrators, great facilities, approachable professors, etc. My law department was about the same size as my undergraduate major school, yet I got more personal attention from professors in my first semester of law school than my entire time in engineering school.
That said, attempts to game the rankings creates terrible incentives for universities. Pretty much the whole ranking boils down to how much money you can spend. You can buy high SAT's by spending more on scholarships, you can buy smaller class sizes by spending more on professors, etc. That works fine for well-established private schools with enormous endowments, but not so much for state MRU's. Berkeley's $3 billion endowment supports 35,000 students. Duke's $7-8 billion endowment (depending on how you count) supports 15,000 students.
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#63If the primary benefit of attending a good college is education from professors, then yes, there is something perverse in the rankings. But I'm not sure that's how college actually works. At the undergrad level, a particular class at one college is likely pretty similar to a class at another college. And aside from a few exceptional students, you're likely to be able to find whatever classes you're looking for at any…
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#64One of those ideas that's blatantly obvious, but which most will refuse to consider until someone 'big' mainstreams it. I have a hard time reconciling the various useful things the Gates foundation seems to do with the tendency towards obnoxiousness that defines Microsoft.
Making your fortune through ruthlessness and crushing the opposition, followed by generous philanthropy, is time-honored tradition. One prototype is Andrew Carnegie.
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#65US News's rankings are based upon metrics like acceptance rate, retention rate, yield rate, charitable donations, faculty-student ratio, endowment, etc. These rankings don't predict the "best" colleges, but rather the most prestigious.
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was an earlier Hacker News submission about the Gates Foundation research on teacher effectiveness, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4559682 linking to an article that reported details of the methodology. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/10/why-kids... I looked up other research on the matter for the reply I posted in that thread. From the article submitted then, this is one way this process…
And this is my hypothesis on why home schooling otherwise normal children is so much more effective than primary school education. 1) Kids between the ages of 5 and 13 often do treat their parents with respect. 2) Kids between the ages of 5 and 13 often do what their parents tell them to do. 3) Home school kids stay busy and don't waste time because the parent(s) aren't going to let the time go to 'waste' 4) Home sch…
You are effectively providing the student (your child) with a full time, one-on-one tutor (you) which is significantly more effective (even with a less experienced teacher) than an instructor being asked to teach 20/30/40 children at one time.
A teacher in a full classroom of 30 students simply cannot pay attention to a child's advancement as precisely as a teacher working one-on-one.
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#67> “The report concluded that there were observable, repeatable and verifiable ways of measuring teacher effectiveness,” wrote Gates in the letter. Anonymous student surveys that asked such questions as “Does your teacher use class time well, get class organized quickly, help you when you are confused" – were proven to provide useful feedback as were reports from trained professionals observing teachers at work. Stude…
Some departments of the university I'm studying at got around this problem by bribing the students with printing credits after filling out the lecture feedback surveys. Other more general surveys on the campus entered all respondents into a prize draw for vouchers or cash.
Sadly my department did nothing like that and as such our response rates are as abysmal as your experience describes.
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#68I'm sure Bill Gates has a more nuanced view on college ratings than this article suggests. Welcome to media.
We all know why the college rankings are the way they are. Frankly, no one cares who the "most improved" olympic athlete was in London. People generally want the unambiguity of an outright set of winners. Unambiguous winners may be ok in sports, but not in colleges, where the rankings have a big impact on education here in the US. Gates points out this flaw and argues instead for a "most improved student" metric.
Unfortunately, Gates' "solution" wouldn't really solve the problem either. What is the positive feedback loop for schools that rank highly on "produces the most improved students"? Would they receive extra government funding? Attract better students? I see neither of these as likely. Try again Mr. Gates.
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is probably objectively true.
I know the comment you're responding to wasn't that great, but this really isn't "objectively true." He's done a lot of good for sure, but to simply accept his contributions as "the most generous and influential" because of his fame and the money behind it, is to discredit lots of other brilliant philanthropists. For example, wasn't there just an article on HN within the past week about Norman Borlaug, whose agricult…
Re: Bill Gates Says There Is Something Perverse In College Ratings
#70"Bill Gates, the world’s most generous and influential philanthropist." Good thing this writer is unbiased.
I'm not disagreeing with the statement. It's just that it's rather shoddy journalism. Most influential is a matter of opinion and needs to be justified. Most generous is plausible, but the metric for generosity needs definition.
An alternate reading could be that the statement is meant to be obviously opinion; one school of thought on writing is that it should be obvious which statements are fact and which are opinion by the very nature of the statement, and it is superfluous to preface them with phrases like "in my opinion".