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We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

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Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#31

Post by eshvk »

DanBC wrote: post #10

Already this thread has replies that are trotting out the usual "depression is just sadness" or "CBT is nonsense". The UK NHS National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence ( http://www.nice.org.uk/ ) gathers evidence of cost effectiveness (using quality adjusted life years) for various treatments. They are pretty clear - CBT is excellent for mild depression; CBT and medication combined is more effective than…

You are conflating two very different opinions/groups: One can necessarily be skeptical of CBT without believing that depression is just sadness.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#32

Post by jtchang »

marvin wrote: post #26
jtchang wrote: post #6

The problem with depression is that it is hard to diagnose. If anything we are still in the dark ages of mental illness. If you have an infection we have a way to tell you what infection. Right now there is no way to test for depression. More scientific research is definitely needed.

Depression can be diagnosed pretty easily by running through a form of questions and checking off checkboxes. You are depressed if some statistical measures score above a certain value. To which degree are you...Sad? Have trouble getting things done? Don't find joy in the things that used to make you happy? Thinking about death? Feel any emotions at all? Afraid that something terrible is about to happen? Thinking abo…

Why isn't it an exact science? Science teaches us that things should be repeatable and reproducible.

Running through a form of questions and ticking off boxes doesn't seem very "advanced" to me. In fact it seems like the very definition of backwards.

Why aren't we aiming for a physics level of understanding in psychology?

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#33

Post by marvin »

ekianjo wrote: post #12
eriksank wrote: post #8

It seems to be culturally dependent too and related to education as well. There seems to be less of an epidemic in the part of Asia where I live.

I am not sure which part of Asia you are referring to, but in Japan there is "depression boom", at least judging by the increased amount of anti-depressants being sold.

Yeah, I was just about to say that the suicides by pesticide-drinking I have been reading about don't exactly seem like a sign of good mental health. I would be willing to bet that depression and anxiety are simply underdiagnosed due to stigma or doctor ignorance. Same goes for the number one suicidal act which is normally attributed only to religious extremism: Suicide bombers.

Think about it. You've read historical accounts hundreds of years old that describe these things. It doesn't make sense that this is just a made-up condition by spoiled Westerners, which is usually the first thing that people think when they look at official numbers for anxiety and depression by country.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#34

Post by nnq »

austenallred wrote: post #23

Thank you, Mark, for writing this. I have lost three close friends in the past three months to depression. Their deaths were so similar it was shocking; they were all among the most brilliant people I had known, and all had been suffering from depression almost their entire lives. At the funeral of the one who was closest to me, another girl told a story of how on one day when his depression was particularly bad, he…

> your brain lies to you

Indeed, I've been saying this to myself in dozens of situations, not just depressive moods. If you actually believe it when you say it, it's like a sort of mantra that can replace any pill! ...but unfortunately people suffering from clinical depression can't get themselves into the "saying it and believing it mode".

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#35

Post by DanBC »

eshvk wrote: post #31
DanBC wrote: post #10

Already this thread has replies that are trotting out the usual "depression is just sadness" or "CBT is nonsense". The UK NHS National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence ( http://www.nice.org.uk/ ) gathers evidence of cost effectiveness (using quality adjusted life years) for various treatments. They are pretty clear - CBT is excellent for mild depression; CBT and medication combined is more effective than…

You are conflating two very different opinions/groups: One can necessarily be skeptical of CBT without believing that depression is just sadness.

That's not my intent; I'm just using one post to reply to a few different people.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#36

Post by jwdunne »

jtchang wrote: post #25
jwdunne wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is a clear cut test would be great but it's not actually hard twit out it and a bigger problem is the treatment. I think the answer to both lies in the same area though, since the source of depression is not clear in the brain (I believe there was a study that shown SSRIs have an immediate effect on serotonin re-uptake yet takes a number of weeks to ease depression - implying serotonin doesn't play su…

We have to study it from multiple angles. I don't have a problem with more research into SSRIs. Hell I don't even have a problem with SSRIs. The main issue I have is that people think our understanding of mental illness / psychiatry is as good as say pathology.

Oh I do not deny that at all. If it was, we both wouldn't be airing our distaste for diagnosis and treatment. The whole field is still very, very young so we can't expect the same advances as we have in other areas.

My main point is that, from my own person experiences through the whole system, treatment seems the most broken aspect. Diagnosis of depression is possible without a blood-test, as are other physical illnesses, the signs are obvious. The treatment is not as trivial, you won't do well to "let it run it's course", the drugs are gruelling and may not even work and therapy requires drive a depressed person hasn't got.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#37

Post by jay-pinkman »

not all cases of depression can be attributed to unbalanced brain chemistry. sometimes the chemistry is ok, it's just your life is fucked. in this case depression is a normal reaction. you just can't remain all cheerful when you're drowning in shit. i don't think taking up meds or doing other things to cover it up is a good answer to such situations. with all its negative aspects depression is also a big reminder that something is off and must be fixed, it pushes you to make drastic changes because your regular routine doesn't quite help. sometimes it pushes you to a suicide which is sad but notice how many successful people with stellar careers and shiny popular products or art had been struggling with depression when they were failing at their job, when their dreams were crumbling, and no end to this horror was in sight. maybe it's a stretch but i'd say suffering from depression at some point in life is a normal thing for a maker. sometimes difficulties that you prepared yourself to are just greatly overshadowed by the actual state of affairs. that's to say marking all cases of depression as illness that needs to be treated is a wrong way to look at the problem. in my opinion at least. what helps is support and understanding, phrases like "pull your socks up" or "go get some pills" don't.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#38

Post by DanBC »

hedwall wrote: post #22
imperio59 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's actually highly well informed, Psychiatrists themselves admit there's nothing scientific about the whole "brain chemistry imbalance" bullshit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzdu3WQyIZg&list=PLFD5944...

He isn't talking about medication, he is talking about CBT. CBT on it's own has been shown to be effective for low to moderate depression.

You are speaking to someone who claims that psychiatrists are responsible for the holocaust, pearl harbour, etc etc.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#39

Post by andreasklinger »

austenallred wrote: post #23

Thank you, Mark, for writing this. I have lost three close friends in the past three months to depression. Their deaths were so similar it was shocking; they were all among the most brilliant people I had known, and all had been suffering from depression almost their entire lives. At the funeral of the one who was closest to me, another girl told a story of how on one day when his depression was particularly bad, he…

I love the comparison to being paralysed. Being "mentally paralysed" is actually a good description.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#40

Post by opminion »

nnq wrote: post #34
austenallred wrote: post #23

Thank you, Mark, for writing this. I have lost three close friends in the past three months to depression. Their deaths were so similar it was shocking; they were all among the most brilliant people I had known, and all had been suffering from depression almost their entire lives. At the funeral of the one who was closest to me, another girl told a story of how on one day when his depression was particularly bad, he…

> your brain lies to you Indeed, I've been saying this to myself in dozens of situations, not just depressive moods. If you actually believe it when you say it, it's like a sort of mantra that can replace any pill! ...but unfortunately people suffering from clinical depression can't get themselves into the "saying it and believing it mode".

Perhaps a digested, weighted, real-world-mapped version of Wikipedia's list of cognitive biases [1] would be useful as mantra.

Just the kind of thing that xkcd does with posters, actually.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biases_in_judgment_and_...

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