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Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

nytimes.com

121–130 of 183 posts

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#121
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Chinese, I would say the Chinese government is worried about 'Arab Spring', but that's not why they attacked NYT this time. The 'Great firewall' was built to prevent any uprising similar to 'Arab spring' from being started.

How likely do you think a Chinese spring would be? It's unfortunate that we don't get more foreign perspective on HN and Reddit - I hope you comment more.

I'm first generation Chinese-American, IMO not going to happen. Chinese people are concerned about money first and foremost followed by their family.

Also I'd like to challenge the implied perspective that somehow American democracy is somehow superior. In fact the very notion of fighting for a political cause is a Western idea, Chinese people are less naive than Americans in a sense because everyone in China knows that the nightly newscast (Xinwen Lianbo) is all BS whereas people in America listen and cling onto their political religion (Rachael Maddow/Amy Goodman/Colbert Report for Left Coast Yuppies, Glenn Beck for Tea Partiers and CNN for mainstream suburbanites).

The Chinese idea is that politics has really less to do with personal life as they are the waves of a ocean to a surfer; they come and go, rather than try to bend the all-powerful, insurmountable, it's best to yield to the ocean, surf in its direction. People humbly refer themselves as One of the Hundred Names (Lao Bai Xin), separate from the emperors or now CPC in their celestial palace.

Not fighting for one's identity and civil representation may seem apathetic and offensive to American sensibilities. But for the Chinese, one would rather improve one's lot by focusing on getting into a better school, a good employer and finding a good partner for marriage and taking care parents than getting a piece of legislation changed advertising that you could potentially live a better life.

I'm sure supporters of American-style democracy will point to the civil rights movement, the New Deal, child labor laws as democracy-in-action that changed working class people's lives for the better if people stick together and march onto Washington. But the Chinese perspective sees revolutions and protests as natural occurrences of the masses dissatisfaction, like waves in an ocean, they will form when the conditions are right (mass protests on polluting factories, mass Weibo posts on air quality and expose on certain official's corruption). Even Tianmen incident was a protest made by the falling dominoes of communism and a mass of disaffected students and workers with varying and complex mix of agenda's - and to compare with the Westerner's idea of a rallying cry (Sandy Hook, Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, Rosa Parks) with a singular hero or matyr, it's a contrast of Taoist Wu-Wei and Confucian idea of communal harmony to American individualism and manifest destiny.

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#122
post #19

I think it's important to understand the Chinese perspective on this issue, if only to see why they do these things. Start with this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?pagewante... U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings Even as the United States poured billions of dollars into foreign military programs and anti-terrorism campaigns, a small core of American government-financed organizations were pr…

A friend of mine studying Foreign Relations, pointed me to The Heartlands Theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_Histo... ).

Basically, it states that since 50% of world's resources are concentrated at Europe + Asia + Africa, whoever desires to control the world should control this area first. If you think of it this way, it makes sense that if an international super-power such as the USA wishes to maintain that power, it has to control this region, or at least make sure no one else controls it. The greatest threat in this situation is certainly China and the best possible way to attack this problem would be to create internal strife considering the peculiar circumstances.

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#123
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but don't match up with the M.O. of the perpetrators in question Oh, the hubris. This statement may be true (and probably is), but the perpetrators might also be running a BIOS rootkit at the same time - unless you actually pull the bios chip out and read it in another machine, you cannot tell. If you haven't already, read Ken Thompson's "Reflections on Trusting Trust", and mentally replace every occurrence of "C c…

I don't disagree with anything you've written, but remediation from these attacks almost never involves replacing any of the hardware (with the possible exception of when a laptop belongs to an executive, and it becomes easier to just set them up with a new one and swap it out).

> remediation from these attacks almost never involves replacing any of the hardware

That's true. But it should, if you care about security.

Equivalent: Proper backup procedures are seldom made or tested. They should (and they do happen once there's enough CYA involved, or one of the involved parties has experienced some previous catastrophic event)

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#124
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How likely do you think a Chinese spring would be? It's unfortunate that we don't get more foreign perspective on HN and Reddit - I hope you comment more.

I'm first generation Chinese-American, IMO not going to happen. Chinese people are concerned about money first and foremost followed by their family. Also I'd like to challenge the implied perspective that somehow American democracy is somehow superior. In fact the very notion of fighting for a political cause is a Western idea, Chinese people are less naive than Americans in a sense because everyone in China knows t…

I think you're overstating your case. I would say the "228 incident" [1] would counter your assertion that rallying cries (political causes) are anathema or that people don't care about authoritarianism as they might seek over ways to overcome the difficulties presented by such (following your waves in the ocean).

I think the healthy political involvement (even antagonistic approach) to politics in, practically Chinese, Taiwan speaks to how, essentially, Chinese people did "march on Washington" to produce change and shake off authoritarianism and did have a singular genesis with Lin, Jiang-mai and the Tienma Teahouse incident.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/228_Incident

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#125

didn't expect much out of this story because it has felt for a long time that hackers targeting politically sensitive media orgs, govt and private sector out of China is the norm. Too common, widespread (however it's being organized) and they are too many for us to keep tabs on/hope to stop. All we can do is be vigilant in security practices and keeping on top of latest measures.

Keeping on top of the latest measures is great, but I wonder if it's good enough. Maybe we should go back to writing our most sensitive information on paper.

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#126
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been there. I spent 6 months last year. What you might not understand is that the Chinese government has its hands in every corporation, organization, competitor, etc. You might have false assumptions coming from the US system, where corporations and government are separate entities. They even sue one another at times. In China, large corporations are overseen by the government. The government funds them, decide…

"Government" is not one cohesive entity, certainly not in a country as big as China. Sure, there might be some rogue actors sympathetic to such attacks. But that doesn't imply that "Chinese government" in general is supportive of such acts, just like a few corruption scandals do not imply that entire US government is corrupt.

But for each scandal we need to re-evaluate the prior.

I'm irritated that you post this as if presupposing that the US government is not corrupt. I know you are factually correct, but the connotation bothers me.

When they failed to stop SOPA of their own accord, I realized that the majority are either incompetent or corrupt.

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#127
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Chinese, I would say the Chinese government is worried about 'Arab Spring', but that's not why they attacked NYT this time. The 'Great firewall' was built to prevent any uprising similar to 'Arab spring' from being started.

How likely do you think a Chinese spring would be? It's unfortunate that we don't get more foreign perspective on HN and Reddit - I hope you comment more.

What? Why? I happily wish for the day that the Great Firewall gets shut off, but in my book, the Chinese Government has been fantastically successful.

The sheer number of people brought out of poverty in the last few decades is mind-boggling. In 1981, 85%[1] of China's population (that's 850 million people[3]) lived on I'm confident that we'll eventually see reform in China. It'll take a few decades. People are still "high" on growth. Once the growth slows down, people will start taking a more critical eye on their government, and change will occur. I think those changes will be occur gradually and peacefully.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_Peoples_Republic... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States [3] http://www.chinability.com/Population.htm

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#128
post #113
post #19

I think it's important to understand the Chinese perspective on this issue, if only to see why they do these things. Start with this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?pagewante... U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings Even as the United States poured billions of dollars into foreign military programs and anti-terrorism campaigns, a small core of American government-financed organizations were pr…

> "This is why the Chinese government feels that it is under attack by the United States, and it does not see a line between NGOs, the NYT/WSJ, and the US government..." They are neither incompetent nor ignorant. They can tell who's who. When they want Industrial info, they know where and how to get it. When they want advanced tech, they know how to get it. When they want to retaliate "cybernetically" they know how t…

  I would say, as others have pointed out, that this is in 
  retaliation to the pieces about graft and wealth building 
  by CN officials counter to the spirit of the revolution 
  because it could cause internal PLA dissent/strife -and to 
  see if they could obtain info about sourc(e)s of that info.
Absolutely. But the greater context is that they see this as a skirmish in the larger campaign to discredit the PRC's current leaders, foment discontent, overthrow the government, and set up a (US-controlled) democracy.

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#129
post #19

I think it's important to understand the Chinese perspective on this issue, if only to see why they do these things. Start with this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?pagewante... U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings Even as the United States poured billions of dollars into foreign military programs and anti-terrorism campaigns, a small core of American government-financed organizations were pr…

As much as I'm tempted to accept the self-loathing implicit in your analysis, temphn, I must strenuously object. Talking to people should never be denied or (in this case) punished. I don't care if it's government sponsored propaganda, the NYT, or the KFC marketing department: there is no justification for censorship . If, as you say, "the Chinese government feels that it is under attack by the United States" then pe…

I'm all for freedom of information, but let's not kid ourselves that the U.S. government doesn't restrict information either:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_States

Re: Chinese Hackers Infiltrate New York Times Computers

#130
post #19

I think it's important to understand the Chinese perspective on this issue, if only to see why they do these things. Start with this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?pagewante... U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings Even as the United States poured billions of dollars into foreign military programs and anti-terrorism campaigns, a small core of American government-financed organizations were pr…

As much as I'm tempted to accept the self-loathing implicit in your analysis, temphn, I must strenuously object. Talking to people should never be denied or (in this case) punished. I don't care if it's government sponsored propaganda, the NYT, or the KFC marketing department: there is no justification for censorship . If, as you say, "the Chinese government feels that it is under attack by the United States" then pe…

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