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Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

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Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#21

Post by Moto7451 »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #16
markstahler wrote: post #13

I am surprised that they are moving towards git and not Mercurial. Isn't Microsoft a sponsor of Mercurial? Perhaps this is because hg already has very good tools for Windows. I suppose I am just a little confused as to why git gets more attention than hg.

I think you first have to ask why Microsoft is supporting git when Team Foundation is, itself, Microsoft's primary source control system. The answer is most likely because people use git. Lots of people use git - particularly the crowd Microsoft is actively struggling to appeal to which is the entrepreneurial/startup crowd. I've never used hg so I can't attest as to which is "better" but I really don't think that mat…

I've been an hg fan for a while and like it better (hg jives with my brain better and git occasionally throws weird problems at me) but quality wise I can't say there is much of a difference in my experience.

That said, I have never met a single other person who uses hg. Not at work or hackathons. Most have never even seen an hg repository and some haven't even heard of it. Git definitely has "won" this "war".

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#22

Post by modeless »

untog wrote: post #17
modeless wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For compiling legacy code. Found a library that does exactly what you need, but it uses ATL somewhere in its guts? Sorry, won't compile with Visual Studio Express.

I'd argue that isn't really the use case for their free tools. They want you to make ASP.NET web sites, Windows Phone apps and maybe a few simple desktop apps.

I'm sure that's their argument too. "Express isn't 'for' that." However, Microsoft is not really in a position now to dictate what developers "should" be using Windows/Visual Studio for. If they want Windows to remain relevant as a platform then putting roadblocks in front of developers is the wrong thing to do, even if the roadblocks are well-intentioned "steering" towards a development path Microsoft prefers.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#23

Post by Symmetry »

Apparently libgit2, which they're using for this has the license: libgit2 is under GPL2 with linking exemption. This means you can link to the library with any program, commercial, open source or other. However, you cannot modify libgit2 and distribute it without supplying the source.

That sounds nice to me, but I'm not sure how that differs from the standard LGPLv2.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#24

Post by zwieback »

jf wrote: post #14
ethomson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are a lot of compelling reasons to use a distributed version control tool, there are also compelling reasons to use a centralized system. Having a lot of giant files (game resources are the canonical example) suits a checkout/edit/checkin system much better than a system that scans the disk like a edit/merge/commit system or a DVCS. These sorts of repositories exist within Microsoft (and DevDiv) itself. F…

A couple of other reasons to use centralized version control: 1: You are a Fortune 100 company and need to have access control on your codebase (so you can give contractors access to only a few files for example) 2: The code you are writing is subject to regulatory control.

Interesting you should mention that. We have our code on a corporate SVN server but I used git (via git svn) to create a mirror for some offshore developers outside the export control bubble. Git allowed me to exclude a set of files very easily. Not an argument pro or con either system, just saying.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#25

Post by shanselman »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #2

When I read "Q: Does this mean Team Foundation Version Control (TFVC) is dead? A: Not for a second." The thing that comes to mind is a politician saying "I'm not thinking about resigning". His resignation has just become nearly inevitable. I have more belief in the statement about Microsoft working with open source, or at least MS Developer Division working with open source. On the whole this looks cool, though VS in…

One think that I've been impressed with is that changes you make from the command line are reflected instantly in the GUI. I like to change branches from PowerShell with posh-git. I'm using the GUI and command line interchangeably.

(Disclaimer: I work for MSFT but not in the git/vs group)

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#26

Post by shanselman »

fusiongyro wrote: post #19
tobyjsullivan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you first have to ask why Microsoft is supporting git when Team Foundation is, itself, Microsoft's primary source control system. The answer is most likely because people use git. Lots of people use git - particularly the crowd Microsoft is actively struggling to appeal to which is the entrepreneurial/startup crowd. I've never used hg so I can't attest as to which is "better" but I really don't think that mat…

The OP is simply saying that it seems odd that Microsoft would pour $20,000+ into Mercurial and then add git support to VS. http://mercurial.selenic.com/sponsors/ I'd bet this is simply a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. I had no idea Microsoft were sponsoring Mercurial--even that seems odd, spending money on an open source competitor to a product they also make. I think your analysis i…

No, they knew what was happening. http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/177875/why-is...

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#27

Post by ajross »

Symmetry wrote: post #23

Apparently libgit2, which they're using for this has the license: libgit2 is under GPL2 with linking exemption. This means you can link to the library with any program, commercial, open source or other. However, you cannot modify libgit2 and distribute it without supplying the source. That sounds nice to me, but I'm not sure how that differs from the standard LGPLv2.

LGPL requires that any distribution be able to replace the LGPL component with a modified version. If you use it as a shared library (er, DLL in this case I guess) you get that for free. But if, for example, you want to link a LGPL library statically you need to provide a static library containing the rest of your program in a linkable form.

The point is to allow the user the ability to exercise their right to modify the LGPL library and use it. The license you describe would presumably allow Microsoft to ship a binary with a fixed and unchangable libgit2 implementation.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#28

Post by CurtHagenlocher »

markstahler wrote: post #13

I am surprised that they are moving towards git and not Mercurial. Isn't Microsoft a sponsor of Mercurial? Perhaps this is because hg already has very good tools for Windows. I suppose I am just a little confused as to why git gets more attention than hg.

Microsoft initially made Codeplex work with Mercurial. I don't know why Mercurial was chosen over Git at that time, but perhaps it was because of Git's reputation for working poorly under Windows. I suspect that the sponsorship dates to those days.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#29

Post by zwieback »

skrebbel wrote: post #7
modeless wrote: post #4

This is a great step. Now, will they stop alienating developers by omitting crucial tools like PIX and ATL/MFC headers from the free versions of their development tools? Or are they still under the impression that their platform is powerful enough that developers should pay them hundreds of dollars for the privilege of writing apps for it?

How are ATL and MFC crucial in 2013?

For me it's the easiest and fastest way to throw together a C++ app with a simple GUI that still works on most WIndows PCs.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#30

Post by RandallBrown »

Moto7451 wrote: post #21
tobyjsullivan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you first have to ask why Microsoft is supporting git when Team Foundation is, itself, Microsoft's primary source control system. The answer is most likely because people use git. Lots of people use git - particularly the crowd Microsoft is actively struggling to appeal to which is the entrepreneurial/startup crowd. I've never used hg so I can't attest as to which is "better" but I really don't think that mat…

I've been an hg fan for a while and like it better (hg jives with my brain better and git occasionally throws weird problems at me) but quality wise I can't say there is much of a difference in my experience. That said, I have never met a single other person who uses hg. Not at work or hackathons. Most have never even seen an hg repository and some haven't even heard of it. Git definitely has "won" this "war".

I believe Mozilla uses hg for their source control.
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