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Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

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Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#11

Post by modeless »

skrebbel wrote: post #7
modeless wrote: post #4

This is a great step. Now, will they stop alienating developers by omitting crucial tools like PIX and ATL/MFC headers from the free versions of their development tools? Or are they still under the impression that their platform is powerful enough that developers should pay them hundreds of dollars for the privilege of writing apps for it?

How are ATL and MFC crucial in 2013?

For compiling legacy code. Found a library that does exactly what you need, but it uses ATL somewhere in its guts? Sorry, won't compile with Visual Studio Express.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#12

Post by ethomson »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #2

When I read "Q: Does this mean Team Foundation Version Control (TFVC) is dead? A: Not for a second." The thing that comes to mind is a politician saying "I'm not thinking about resigning". His resignation has just become nearly inevitable. I have more belief in the statement about Microsoft working with open source, or at least MS Developer Division working with open source. On the whole this looks cool, though VS in…

While there are a lot of compelling reasons to use a distributed version control tool, there are also compelling reasons to use a centralized system. Having a lot of giant files (game resources are the canonical example) suits a checkout/edit/checkin system much better than a system that scans the disk like a edit/merge/commit system or a DVCS. These sorts of repositories exist within Microsoft (and DevDiv) itself. For that reason alone, TFVC won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#13

Post by markstahler »

I am surprised that they are moving towards git and not Mercurial. Isn't Microsoft a sponsor of Mercurial? Perhaps this is because hg already has very good tools for Windows. I suppose I am just a little confused as to why git gets more attention than hg.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#14

Post by jf »

ethomson wrote: post #12
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #2

When I read "Q: Does this mean Team Foundation Version Control (TFVC) is dead? A: Not for a second." The thing that comes to mind is a politician saying "I'm not thinking about resigning". His resignation has just become nearly inevitable. I have more belief in the statement about Microsoft working with open source, or at least MS Developer Division working with open source. On the whole this looks cool, though VS in…

While there are a lot of compelling reasons to use a distributed version control tool, there are also compelling reasons to use a centralized system. Having a lot of giant files (game resources are the canonical example) suits a checkout/edit/checkin system much better than a system that scans the disk like a edit/merge/commit system or a DVCS. These sorts of repositories exist within Microsoft (and DevDiv) itself. F…

A couple of other reasons to use centralized version control: 1: You are a Fortune 100 company and need to have access control on your codebase (so you can give contractors access to only a few files for example) 2: The code you are writing is subject to regulatory control.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#15

Post by jarito »

markstahler wrote: post #13

I am surprised that they are moving towards git and not Mercurial. Isn't Microsoft a sponsor of Mercurial? Perhaps this is because hg already has very good tools for Windows. I suppose I am just a little confused as to why git gets more attention than hg.

The article seems pretty clear on that.

"When we made the decision that we were going to take the DVCS plunge, we looked at many options. Should we build something? Buy something? Adopt OSS? We looked at Git, Mercurial and others. It didn’t take long to realize that Git was quickly taking over the DVCS space and, in fact, is virtually synonymous with DVCS."

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#16

Post by tobyjsullivan »

markstahler wrote: post #13

I am surprised that they are moving towards git and not Mercurial. Isn't Microsoft a sponsor of Mercurial? Perhaps this is because hg already has very good tools for Windows. I suppose I am just a little confused as to why git gets more attention than hg.

I think you first have to ask why Microsoft is supporting git when Team Foundation is, itself, Microsoft's primary source control system.

The answer is most likely because people use git. Lots of people use git - particularly the crowd Microsoft is actively struggling to appeal to which is the entrepreneurial/startup crowd.

I've never used hg so I can't attest as to which is "better" but I really don't think that matters to most people. The only question is if it is "good enough" and git is.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#17

Post by untog »

modeless wrote: post #11
skrebbel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are ATL and MFC crucial in 2013?

For compiling legacy code. Found a library that does exactly what you need, but it uses ATL somewhere in its guts? Sorry, won't compile with Visual Studio Express.

I'd argue that isn't really the use case for their free tools. They want you to make ASP.NET web sites, Windows Phone apps and maybe a few simple desktop apps.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#18

Post by dustinchilson »

Now they just need to combine this and their Git-TF project and you can use both git and tf on the same project for mixed teams.

Another nice feature would be to convert existing projects from one to the other but that would be a huge undertaking.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#19

Post by fusiongyro »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #16
markstahler wrote: post #13

I am surprised that they are moving towards git and not Mercurial. Isn't Microsoft a sponsor of Mercurial? Perhaps this is because hg already has very good tools for Windows. I suppose I am just a little confused as to why git gets more attention than hg.

I think you first have to ask why Microsoft is supporting git when Team Foundation is, itself, Microsoft's primary source control system. The answer is most likely because people use git. Lots of people use git - particularly the crowd Microsoft is actively struggling to appeal to which is the entrepreneurial/startup crowd. I've never used hg so I can't attest as to which is "better" but I really don't think that mat…

The OP is simply saying that it seems odd that Microsoft would pour $20,000+ into Mercurial and then add git support to VS.

http://mercurial.selenic.com/sponsors/

I'd bet this is simply a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. I had no idea Microsoft were sponsoring Mercurial--even that seems odd, spending money on an open source competitor to a product they also make.

I think your analysis is spot on.

Re: Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server will have Git support

#20

Post by mhurron »

modeless wrote: post #11
skrebbel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are ATL and MFC crucial in 2013?

For compiling legacy code. Found a library that does exactly what you need, but it uses ATL somewhere in its guts? Sorry, won't compile with Visual Studio Express.

VS Express isn't exactly aimed at supporting legacy code for you.

The Express products are free, light(er)weight and don't support everything the other editions do. You should have known this going into this.

There are however other library downloads from Microsoft that may make both MFC and ATL libraries available to the Express editions.

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