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Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

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Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#11

I hate to get analytical here, but is anyone tracking the suicides of founders? Is it higher than average or are we just seeing more news bubble-up after Swartz?

I don't have a lot of data on this, but I recall reading that one significant factor involved in increased incidence of suicide is when there is a great discrepancy between personal expectations and actual achievements. Along with this it was mentioned that there is a higher rate of suicide in wealthier societies than poor ones, and among graduates from prestigious universities than average ones.

As a result I suppose it would not be an unreasonable hypothesis that entrepreneurs (who might have very lofty goals) might be more likely to commit suicide if they are either unsuccessful at sustaining a business or are successful, but never achieve the level of success that they had expected of themselves.

Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#12
post #2

If you're feeling this way please just TELL somebody. If you're ready to kill yourself, what more do you have to lose by just letting someone know?

One thing to keep in mind is that when a person is depressed or manic they are not thinking in what you might consider a "logical" way, or in a way that treats events with proper proportion and perspective. Thoughts can be very disorganized, small defeats can seem like crushing blows, minor slights can seem like significant insults, and you may feel unworthy of help or assume that nobody is willing to provide it.

Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#13

I hate to get analytical here, but is anyone tracking the suicides of founders? Is it higher than average or are we just seeing more news bubble-up after Swartz?

The sad bit is that suicide is very common. More people die of suicide than by car accidents or murder. Suicide is the leading cause of death on a college campus. And those are just U.S. stats. In Asian countries the suicide rate is almost 5x what it is in the U.S.

Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#14
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen close friends and relatives work their way through depression (varying levels), so unfortunate as it is, here is the answer (I KNOW the following sounds crazy - even to me - but this is what is considered rational and obvious by suicidal folks) Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you. If you have decided to take your life, the worst thing you want (in some cases) is for someone try…

There are other reasons too. Having been there myself, the big one I've seen in myself and with friends in similar situations is that the depressed individual feels worthless and "unfixable" at their core because of their: - past behaviour (e.g. they did something considered seriously socially unacceptable and feel they can't tell anybody lest they be ostracised forever , or people already know about it and they are…

And the most recent study suggest suicide has now passed car accidents.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/09/2...

Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#15
post #6
post #2

If you're feeling this way please just TELL somebody. If you're ready to kill yourself, what more do you have to lose by just letting someone know?

I have seen close friends and relatives work their way through depression (varying levels), so unfortunate as it is, here is the answer (I KNOW the following sounds crazy - even to me - but this is what is considered rational and obvious by suicidal folks) Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you. If you have decided to take your life, the worst thing you want (in some cases) is for someone try…

"Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you."

I think this is a likely reason, along with feeling of low self worth (feeling irredeemably "unfixable" as lusr described it [1]), or not having any fiends or family that they can tell.

The best thing is to talk to someone. Ideally a mental health professional, or failing that a friend or relation. But if a suicidal person feels that this would diminish their control over their life then I would urge them to phone a crisis line (list here: [2]). They keep their anonymity and control while giving themselves the chance of a way out of the immediate crisis, hopefully enabling them to get to the point where they can confide in someone and get help.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5138789

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines

Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#16
post #2

If you're feeling this way please just TELL somebody. If you're ready to kill yourself, what more do you have to lose by just letting someone know?

From what I read there are several causes of suicide:

* Legitimate reasons, e.g., you're a French resistance fighter captured by Gestapo and if you speak under torture innocent people will be deported to Auschwitz (okay, had to "Godwin" this preemptively); you are elderly and are terminally ill with a very painful illness and want to die with dignity.

I think suicide should be legal and legitimate for individuals in truly unescapable circumstances. The exception could be those who commit suicide to escape retribution, but we should ask deeper questions of why individuals prefer death to imprisonment if (historically) death penalty has been a greater deterrent and is today reserved only for the most heinous crimes (in other words, if don't feel an individual has committed a crime heinous enough to warrant death, why is that we find it to inflict punishment considered by many to be worse than death?)

The key way to reduce suicide cause by these reasons in a first world society is to fight its causes which are already societal ills even when they do not lead to society (reduce brutality in prisons and offer better rehabilitation programs for convicts, actively work to fight terminal illness, have a better societal safety net, etc...)

* You are making a cry for help, you want people to notice you, and to intervene. Generally people in those circumstances attempt suicide in public, write a suicide note, and use means that are known to be reversible (pills that don't act instantly, public attempts, etc...).

I think this is where the most common means (e.g., suicide prevention hotlines) work very well.

* Bipolar or unipolar depression, negative symptoms of schizophrenia: in this case, no one may even know that you're planning to take your own life, there's seldom a note left, and the method used is usually more certain (e.g., firearm, actually toxic drugs). Gun control is not the solution either -- it may or may not be a valid route to violence prevention (this is an entirely different topic) -- it is nearly impossible to obtain firearms in Belarus (my home country) and very difficult to do so in Japan, but these countries still have a very high suicide rates despite being (respectively) second and first world countries (i.e., there are certainly problems, but there is no mass starvation, civil war, genocide, etc... going on).

I don't know Jody, but it's possible that the latter is what indeed happened here. When such a person is suicidal it's already too late: the best way to help them is to remove societal stigma against the mentally ill. If we take the illness paradigm seriously, then they will then be able to get help early on and lead happier lives; an obvious parallel is with epilepsy, we stopped seeing it a curse from Apollo and began to seriously research and understand its physiological causes.

Society needs to understand that far more often even the most stigmatized illnesses (schizophrenia, bipolar type I a.k.a. "manic-depressive") are characterized by the negative symptoms (inability to experience pleasure, inability to focus, apathy, etc...). The media is far too focused on the positive symptoms (hallucinations, delusions, mania, etc...) and portrays the suffers of these illnesses as prone to violence or bizarre acts; even the films that are generally commended for positive portrayal of mental illness do this.

Reality is that the negative symptoms are more prevalent and hurt their suffers worse. Society needs to re-focus the image and allow these individuals to get help without fearing a permanent stigma and loss of civil rights. From a harm prevention point of view mentally ill individuals are more likely to be victims of violence than its perpetrators, so while violence committed by mentally ill makes headlines, if we're playing a "greater good for greater number of people" game it's better to err on the side of allowing individuals with positive symptoms to remain unrestrained than to force individuals with negative symptoms into hiding (out of fear that they'll be involuntarily committed).

I am very lucky in that my family has no history of mental illness. Yet, research seems to indicate that the intelligence and mental illness are tied together; in today's society intelligence is more important to evolutionary success than ever before (this can be seen through Flynn effect), so mental illness will most likely become more common in the future. It might even become endemic to certain area, e.g., Bay Area where someone who is not a knowledge worker will soon be unable to afford a place to live.

Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#17
post #2

If you're feeling this way please just TELL somebody. If you're ready to kill yourself, what more do you have to lose by just letting someone know?

Depression is very much a bug in the system. But for various reasons people don't see it that way.

If someone has a heart attack, we don't say "why didn't the body just increase blood flow to the heart." Yet if someone commits suicide, people ask why they didn't just change their behavior.

While some people are against psychiatric or other medications, their goal is to fix or compensate for the bugs in the system.

Re: Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away

#20
post #7

I hate to get analytical here, but is anyone tracking the suicides of founders? Is it higher than average or are we just seeing more news bubble-up after Swartz?

When I was in high school one of the students committed suicide. There was a lot of discussion and outreach at the school at the time. One of the things they talked about was that once one student commits suicide it greatly increases the chances that others will follow. My mother is also a social worker at the VA Hospital, and she's had some of her patients opt out so to speak. It does appear to have a very strong pu…

> One of the things they talked about was that once one student commits suicide it greatly increases the chances that others will follow.

I've observed this myself. The effects of suicide are insidious but brutal: if you think nobody will be affected you're deluding yourself.

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