Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#121

Post by qes » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 10:59 PM UTC

hndude wrote: post #95

qes wrote: post #66

Long time lurker, created an account just to add a comment here. Your friend's situation hits close to home as I spent most of my 20's in prison and am a software developer. He can move forward and be reasonably successful despite his felony record. There are plenty of people in the world who will be willing to look past that and give him a chance, but to be balanced, on the flip side there are equally many who will…

You said you were a good software developer before prison - was your crime a white collar one? Do you mind sharing what you were convicted for?

Drugs, I had a brief encounter with methamphetamine in my late teens that landed me a hefty sentence for selling small amounts to support my habit (12 year sentence, though between normal parole time and early release via prison boot camp for drug offenders I served about half that).

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#122

Post by aaron695 » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 11:00 PM UTC

epo wrote: post #107

pavel_lishin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that specific offense, sure - who's gonna marry him? I would argue that someone who murdered his wife because she cheated on him probably has poor impulse control. All other things being equal, I'd give the job to the person who hasn't taken a life.

I'd argue you haven't got a clue what you are talking about and compensate by resorting to cliched moralizing. Everyone would snap given sufficient provocation, a 'cheating spouse' is very provocative, to call it "poor impulse control" is, at best, sanctimonious.

I'm guessing you are just a child or a troll. When you get older you'll realise all marriages and lives have their ups and downs.

If a 'cheating spouse' is the worse you have to deal with you'll have lived a lucky or short life.

Death of loved ones, marriage break ups, losing jobs is life. Get over it. It happens to all of us, this me, me, me mentality that we live in a hollywood movie and just because theses things happen to us it's a world event gets a bit tiring.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#123

Post by CyberFonic » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 11:43 PM UTC

You are indeed the genuine loyal friend that he needs to get re-established. Some of the comments here are good suggestions.

Assuming that you are also involved in IT (well you do read HN) are you able to help him get some consulting gigs? If he is motivated and able to get some basic support, then doing small, well priced jobs for local businesses is a great way to ramp up.

Being a consultant avoids the employer background checks and helps him avoid the low pay trap of menial jobs. You may need to monitor his manners and speech as after 18 years, he may have picked up some habits that are uncool in our current society.

Best of luck to you both.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#124

Post by ucee054 » Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 12:05 AM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #94

ucee054 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what your response would have been if he had committed a similar crime but was an Afghan insurgent.

Pretty much the same, actually. If anything, I'd suggest even more leniency.

Next question: Would you hire the bank robber guy?

I ask because I don't think I could do it

(assuming I were in a position to hire)

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#125

Post by s-v » Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 12:33 AM UTC

Pwnguinz wrote: post #120

FaceKicker wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What people lack of understanding is that prisons are not real punishment for those who are actually there. Some of them might even like it. So, prisons are not efficient in punishment nor rehabilitation. Maybe they're not effective punishment or rehabilitation, but I would certainly say they're an effective deterrent. They might not be a punishment for anyone in there, but they could still be (and at least in my c…

> if someone can pull up a study showing that prison sentences don't have any deterrent effect over other forms of punishment then I'd accept I'm wrong... Certainly: http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/e199912.htm This is not some joe-schmoe study either, from the executive summary: "Fifty studies dating from 1958 involving 336,052 offenders produced 325 correlations between recidivism and (a) length of time in prison…

That study only looks at the deterrent effect on existing criminals, not the general populace. I think there is confusion about the word "deterrent". I always thought about 'deterrent' in this context as: "Prisons are a deterrent.. just the thought of serving time in jail will deter anyone from committing a crime." Whereas the study you linked reports: "We have found that criminals who serve longer sentence are no more deterred from committing another crime than those who served short sentences."

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#126

Post by brianchu » Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 1:05 AM UTC

csense wrote: post #112

eduardordm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think because I live in an extremely violent place it changed the way I think about prisons. I'm not saying that you or me are right or wrong, really. Most criminals are already living in hell. You send them to a prison with this idea that you are punishing them with the clear intention of feeling good in some way (maybe closure?). What people lack of understanding is that prisons are not real punishment for those…

> prisons are not real punishment I think Aaron Swartz would disagree. > punishing them with the clear intention of feeling good in some way This plays some role, but I'd say the biggest reason people give in favor of having prisons is rational: Deterrence. If crimes aren't punished, what stops people from stealing when they want something they can't afford? What stops the strong from beating up the weak for fun, for…

The Aaron Swartz analogy doesn't work. The point that the parent was trying to make was that for your average violent and even non-violent criminal (typically low-income upbringing, living in run-down conditions, living on the "streets" but not in a homeless sense), prisons are not real punishment. In fact, conditions in prison can for some be an improvement. Aaron grew up in an upper-middle class environment. Prison would have been a total change for him.

The problem with deterrence is that criminals by their very nature do not think about the consequences of their actions. This is a generalization, but criminals tend to have poor impulse control and don't think about the future. This is why many studies have shown that the death penalty does not work as a deterrent - a murderer is not being rational in their decision to murder someone. They either do it in the heat of the moment (can't control their temper), or they do because of overwhelming emotion/hate/spite/sociopathy (premeditated murder).

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#127

Post by phaus » Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 1:14 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #92

rdouble wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "nobody will hire him" comments may just be realistic, as most jobs, even low level jobs, screen out felons. Even jobs one would think are amenable to felons, like oil roughnecks in North Dakota, are now staffed by large agencies who weed out felons. These days it's doubly tough for ex-cons because they are competing with millions of unemployed people who don't have a felon rap sheet. If he's really interested in…

Just as an aside, the Quaker church is pretty much awesome. If I were a believer, I'd join the Religious Society of Friends. They're pro-peace and tolerant to a degree that should shame most other Christian churches into trying to be better Christians. And, you're right that churches can be helpful to folks dealing with situations like this. I've become a lot more tolerant of churches and devout religious folks over…

Most of the churches that need to be shamed into becoming better Christians, are unfortunately, completely immune to being ashamed of anything.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#128

Post by kbenson » Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 1:18 AM UTC

epo wrote: post #107

pavel_lishin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that specific offense, sure - who's gonna marry him? I would argue that someone who murdered his wife because she cheated on him probably has poor impulse control. All other things being equal, I'd give the job to the person who hasn't taken a life.

I'd argue you haven't got a clue what you are talking about and compensate by resorting to cliched moralizing. Everyone would snap given sufficient provocation, a 'cheating spouse' is very provocative, to call it "poor impulse control" is, at best, sanctimonious.

> Everyone would snap given sufficient provocation

Depending on your definition of "snap", this is unsubstantiated opinion, not a fact deserving the assertion you used.

It may be that everyone will "snap" if provoked enough if by "snap" you mean become aggressive, possibly entering into a fight, but even then you'll have to sell me that everyone is susceptible to this.

If you define "snap" as taking of another's life when there is no direct threat to your own (which is usually what we are talking about when discussing the murdering of a spouse), then I think you have a LOT of evidence you need to bring forth.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#129

Post by kbenson » Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 1:28 AM UTC

eduardordm wrote: post #2

First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans. He should have been released as soon as he posed no threat to others. If the US keeps its current course there will be more people inside prisons than outside of them in the future. He certainly has a lot of expectations. I can only imagine the pressure he is put…

> First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans.

A simplistic view of how the currently policy such came about will probably do little to help change it, as arguments against it from that point will not sway people who don't believe that's the cause.

Possible other reasons someone might favor longer prison sentences (by no means exhaustive): * Crime deterrence through harsher penalties. * The perception that these are inherently bad people, and should be kept away from society for as long as possible. * Corporate/union entities that benefit from a larger prison system.

Unless you target the actual reason someone holds a view, it's hard to argue against it effectively (but not impossible, you can just provide so many negatives that whatever positives they think they get are overwhelmed).

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#130

Post by scarmig » Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 2:27 AM UTC

ucee054 wrote: post #124

scarmig wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much the same, actually. If anything, I'd suggest even more leniency.

Next question: Would you hire the bank robber guy? I ask because I don't think I could do it (assuming I were in a position to hire)

It certainly would influence my hiring decision. Not a show stopper, but certainly a minor negative. Probably the damage done by lost opportunities for experience would be worse than having a record, though. That even functions as an excuse of sorts--I suspect I'd actually like someone who was in prison for five years and got a degree over someone who lived off a trust fund for five years and did nothing.

All depends on the person, though, and what exactly I'm hiring for. And someone coming out of prison after 20 years? The fact that they committed a crime is long past, but it's hard to overstate how damaging decades in prison is. People have a really hard time adjusting, and any hire of someone like that I did would be out of charity, not out of expecting to get any value out of the person. If they manage to do well, I'd take that as an unexpected plus.