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Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

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Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#91
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He "deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him"? What if the law dictated life in prison, or the death penalty, or for him to be drawn and quartered? People, particularly young men in their early 20s, mess up. He certainly needed to be put in prison for years, but decades? The person someone is when they're 30 is wildly different from who they were when they were 20, biologically. Even if his crime actually en…

We're not talking about Jean Valjean who stole a loaf of bread to feed his family. It's someone who committed a violent crime of robbing a bank because they wanted someone else's money, and they didn't want to earn it the slow, hard way. They knew what they were doing was wrong. They need to accept the consequences of their actions, including 18 years in jail. I'm sure the person in question has done this, and that's…

So, suppose the crime were downloading academic articles, and the punishment was to be up to 35 years in prison...

What you're arguing for is the inherent rightness of State violence. But the government can be wrong, and it often is wrong. If it's wrong, it's not moral to say, "Well, the government said it would do [wrong thing] to him, who am I to question it?" Instead, you question it and call it into doubt, not try to make a descriptive consequence into a prescriptive consequence.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#92
post #71

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

The "nobody will hire him" comments may just be realistic, as most jobs, even low level jobs, screen out felons. Even jobs one would think are amenable to felons, like oil roughnecks in North Dakota, are now staffed by large agencies who weed out felons. These days it's doubly tough for ex-cons because they are competing with millions of unemployed people who don't have a felon rap sheet. If he's really interested in…

Just as an aside, the Quaker church is pretty much awesome. If I were a believer, I'd join the Religious Society of Friends. They're pro-peace and tolerant to a degree that should shame most other Christian churches into trying to be better Christians.

And, you're right that churches can be helpful to folks dealing with situations like this. I've become a lot more tolerant of churches and devout religious folks over the past year or so that I've been interested in and working on homelessness issues.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#93
Since he's a vet, have him talk to the VA. They have this http://vetsuccess.gov/ and especially this http://www.benefits.va.gov/vow/ Also see if he has service-related disability and thus can use VA Vocational Rehab. http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/vre/ Even if he doesn't have a disability rating now, if he can trace something back to his time in the military he can still get a rating and be eligible. With the skillset he has they ought to be able to help him out somehow. I'm not sure how the prison service will tie in, but it's worth a shot.

Along a similar vein he might try his local American Legion or VFW chapter for assistance.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#94
post #81
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He "deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him"? What if the law dictated life in prison, or the death penalty, or for him to be drawn and quartered? People, particularly young men in their early 20s, mess up. He certainly needed to be put in prison for years, but decades? The person someone is when they're 30 is wildly different from who they were when they were 20, biologically. Even if his crime actually en…

I wonder what your response would have been if he had committed a similar crime but was an Afghan insurgent.

Pretty much the same, actually. If anything, I'd suggest even more leniency.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#95
post #66

Long time lurker, created an account just to add a comment here. Your friend's situation hits close to home as I spent most of my 20's in prison and am a software developer. He can move forward and be reasonably successful despite his felony record. There are plenty of people in the world who will be willing to look past that and give him a chance, but to be balanced, on the flip side there are equally many who will…

You said you were a good software developer before prison - was your crime a white collar one? Do you mind sharing what you were convicted for?

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#96
post #4

First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans. He should have been released as soon as he posed no threat to others. If the US keeps its current course there will be more people inside prisons than outside of them in the future. He certainly has a lot of expectations. I can only imagine the pressure he is put…

I'm all for challenging the current US justice system, but I'm not sure why "posed no threat" is your only standard for who should be in prison. He did actually violate the property rights of other people. Prison, in mine and many others' opinions, is not just about rehabilitation.

I feel like our system probably shouldn't really cater to sadists.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#97
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Involving a firearm in the commission of a crime is an instant ticket on the Felony Express. If he hadn't had a gun (first offense or not, discharged or not, loaded or not, real or not) he likely would have been out a long time ago. When you have a gun in that situation the number of things that can go wrong increases by an order of magnitude. The adrenaline could make him pull the trigger when he didn't really mean…

What if the gun wasn't even loaded? Of course, this is absolutely irrelevant to the question. What's done is done. He just wants to move forward and I'm really more interested in helping him to find options.

A bank teller can't know the gun isn't loaded. PTSD is a real bitch and could easily have ruined the tellers life permanently. If there were any customers in the bank they could have been a victim too. Families could have been destroyed.

Frankly 18 years sounds kinda cheap. If you have to rob a bank, at least tie a chain around the atm at 1 am -- more money and less hurt to all concerned.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#98
post #86

I'm a convicted federal felon. To top it off, it's a computer fraud conviction involving a former employer. I used to think I'd never even be able to flip burgers for pay. I'm actually probably right - McDonalds would never hire me. But since my conviction I've worked a decent string of IT jobs. First, he needs to understand that there are a lot of people with a criminal record. I've met plenty of people with crimina…

"I could probably sit in a public library, pinning Amazon links a few hours a day and earn enough to get by."

--Really? I would have assumed that mTurk would have dropped the floor on this type of work.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#99

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

I still don't think nonviolent drug crimes are the same as bank robbery. When you commit a bank robbery with a loaded firearm, you're telling society you have no problem taking a person's life for a little money. If people change, why is the recidivism rate for felons over 50%? And those are just the ones who get caught. Again, I'm speaking strictly to violent crimes here. Nonviolent/drug offenders should be treated…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#100
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the gun wasn't even loaded? Of course, this is absolutely irrelevant to the question. What's done is done. He just wants to move forward and I'm really more interested in helping him to find options.

A bank teller can't know the gun isn't loaded. PTSD is a real bitch and could easily have ruined the tellers life permanently. If there were any customers in the bank they could have been a victim too. Families could have been destroyed. Frankly 18 years sounds kinda cheap. If you have to rob a bank, at least tie a chain around the atm at 1 am -- more money and less hurt to all concerned.

I'm curious. What do you think the going rate for a bank robbery should be? Assuming that a weapon was plainly visible, but not fired? 30 years? 40?
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