Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#41

Post by kjackson2012 » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:00 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #17

kjackson2012 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He shouldn't have committed the crime in the first place. End of story. If he knew that bank robbing was a crime and he committed it anyway, he deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him. People could (or may) have been killed over his greed for money. That being said, I have no problems with the notion of helping ex-cons try to turn their lives around, after they've paid their debt to society. I am a supporte…

He "deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him"? What if the law dictated life in prison, or the death penalty, or for him to be drawn and quartered? People, particularly young men in their early 20s, mess up. He certainly needed to be put in prison for years, but decades? The person someone is when they're 30 is wildly different from who they were when they were 20, biologically. Even if his crime actually en…

We're not talking about Jean Valjean who stole a loaf of bread to feed his family. It's someone who committed a violent crime of robbing a bank because they wanted someone else's money, and they didn't want to earn it the slow, hard way. They knew what they were doing was wrong. They need to accept the consequences of their actions, including 18 years in jail. I'm sure the person in question has done this, and that's why I have problems with any efforts in rehabilitating him now that he has served his time.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. It's as simple as that. If the punishment were death for robbing a bank were death, and you still went ahead and did it, whose fault is that? People need to take responsibility for their own actions. They didn't accidentally rob a bank, or they weren't somehow tricked into robbing a bank. They knowingly decided to do it. If the sentence was 18 years, then I'm satisfied that justice was served.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#42

Post by outworlder » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:01 PM UTC

kjackson2012 wrote: post #6

eduardordm wrote: post #2

First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans. He should have been released as soon as he posed no threat to others. If the US keeps its current course there will be more people inside prisons than outside of them in the future. He certainly has a lot of expectations. I can only imagine the pressure he is put…

He shouldn't have committed the crime in the first place. End of story. If he knew that bank robbing was a crime and he committed it anyway, he deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him. People could (or may) have been killed over his greed for money. That being said, I have no problems with the notion of helping ex-cons try to turn their lives around, after they've paid their debt to society. I am a supporte…

> People could (or may) have been killed over his greed for money.

Yes, but according to the OP, noone was injured. This is not Minority Report.

> That being said, I have no problems with the notion of helping ex-cons try to turn their lives around, after they've paid their debt to society

The thing is: he hasn't! We was locked up, so we could not pay for anything. The only thing that he lost was time, and society gained nothing - and incurred in even greater expenses.

If he was instead forced to pay his debt by working off, then we could say that the debt was repaid.

And, from his point of view, his debt will never be repaid, as he is now unemployable because of his police record.

I have never been convicted, arrested or even questioned by the police (US or otherwise), but the system horrifies me.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#43

Post by syedkarim » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:03 PM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #32

pbj wrote: post #20

"and have been telling him that his only chance of financial independence is through writing code" There are tons of trade skills that he could learn quickly at a local community college. Plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, hvac repair, etc.. can make seriously good money and his felony would likely not be as big of a factor either. Especially if he went into business himself.

A good friend of mine is a felon and a union master electrician. He makes a decent living, when there's work, and his past doesn't seem to make a difference to his employers. There are definitely many paths one can take; code is a really good one, let's be honest, but it's not the only one.

I believe this is a possibility that is dependent on state licensing laws. In some states, the licensing body may not automatically disqualify felons. In other states, they make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. And in the third category, it is automatically disqualifying. Something to definitely look into, though.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#44

Post by JL2010 » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:05 PM UTC

Irregardless wrote: post #29

pbj wrote: post #20

"and have been telling him that his only chance of financial independence is through writing code" There are tons of trade skills that he could learn quickly at a local community college. Plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, hvac repair, etc.. can make seriously good money and his felony would likely not be as big of a factor either. Especially if he went into business himself.

His felony wouldn't be a big deal for employers who would potentially be sending him into people's homes on a regular basis? I have to strongly disagree with that one.

There are tons of trades that do not require you to ever leave a machine shop or electronics lab. If said person is very capable of coding then I would also strongly encourage them to pursue it, but to convince them that it's their only chance? That statement seemed to be a bit of a stretch. Whatever endeavor though, I wish them luck.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#45

Post by d0m » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:06 PM UTC

I would tell him congrats for going through all this with a positive attitude and I wish him the best of luck in his programming career. As for financial independence, may I suggest that he start on elance with a very cheap price to get experience and build a reputation. A beautiful portfolio website really help (At first there would no "past project"; Just a beautiful splash page offering services with X years of experience; then best projects could be added as they are finished.) Also, it's easier to get paid more and be taken if you get specialized in marketing/SEO/business strategy. It's very hard to compete on elance with a psd->html 8$/hours. Lastly, may I suggest that he assist some weekly tech event in his city.. if you say he's got few friends, that would be a good way to meet people sharing his own passion.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#46

Post by elliptic » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:06 PM UTC

syedkarim wrote: post #18

newbie12 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know the details of the crime. For a sentence that long, it likely involved a firearm or some type of physical violence. Protecting the public probably meant locking this guy up until he reached middle age. Having said that, now that he's paid his debt, it does seem like the system should do more to help him return to productive society.

Yes, a firearm was involved. It was not, however, discharged. Nor was anyone injured during the offense. This was his first offense; he thought (irrational, of course) it was his only option after his small business started falling apart.

Oh, that's good to know. What if a security guard had pulled a weapon on him? Would anyone have been injured then? Or what if one of the other customers had rushed him?

I used to think that a man (it's almost always a man) brings a loaded gun to a crime for one reason - to murder someone who got in his way. I've since mollified my stance on that, but still, the fact that no-one was injured isn't in itself really exculpatory.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#47

Post by kjackson2012 » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:06 PM UTC

syedkarim wrote: post #14

kjackson2012 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He shouldn't have committed the crime in the first place. End of story. If he knew that bank robbing was a crime and he committed it anyway, he deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him. People could (or may) have been killed over his greed for money. That being said, I have no problems with the notion of helping ex-cons try to turn their lives around, after they've paid their debt to society. I am a supporte…

He told me the details of his crime: No one was injured. And he has completed his entire sentence.

I'm glad, and I hope he is able to reintegrate back into society easily. There are programs like the Delancey Street program in SF that help ex-cons reintegrate by providing them with jobs and support. And then he should try to go to school and further educate himself at night time. Hopefully he gets a break, but he needs to realize it's a tough road ahead, since many people without criminal records are still unemployed, and having a felony conviction will likely make it very hard for him. If he joins a religious organization, maybe he can get help through them as well.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#48

Post by wpietri » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:07 PM UTC

kjackson2012 wrote: post #6

eduardordm wrote: post #2

First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans. He should have been released as soon as he posed no threat to others. If the US keeps its current course there will be more people inside prisons than outside of them in the future. He certainly has a lot of expectations. I can only imagine the pressure he is put…

He shouldn't have committed the crime in the first place. End of story. If he knew that bank robbing was a crime and he committed it anyway, he deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him. People could (or may) have been killed over his greed for money. That being said, I have no problems with the notion of helping ex-cons try to turn their lives around, after they've paid their debt to society. I am a supporte…

> he deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him

Ok. So if we chopped off a hand from every thief, would have he deserved that? Or how about hanging? We used to hang horse thieves; if we hung bank robbers, would that be just?

It's true that he shouldn't have committed the crime in the first place. But we aren't just allowed to consider whether punishments fit crimes; as citizens, it's our duty. Our government is of, by, and for the people. It's entirely reasonable for eduardordm to question the length of the sentence.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#49

Post by SwellJoe » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:08 PM UTC

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cuba, higher than any other place you might think of as "repressive" or a "prison state" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcerat...).

People change. Prisons make some folks worse, this is true. But, many people come out of prison with no desire other than to lead an honest life. One of my best friends over the past year or so is a felon; spent several years in prison on a drug-related crime (a serious drug-related crime, not a little weed in his pocket). When I went to Mexico for a month, he's the person I trusted the keys to my storage unit (with tens of thousands of dollars in gear) to. Why hold a mistake made in someone's youth over their head for the rest of their lives? How does that make a better, safer, more peaceful society?

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#50

Post by pc86 » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:08 PM UTC

syedkarim wrote: post #18

newbie12 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know the details of the crime. For a sentence that long, it likely involved a firearm or some type of physical violence. Protecting the public probably meant locking this guy up until he reached middle age. Having said that, now that he's paid his debt, it does seem like the system should do more to help him return to productive society.

Yes, a firearm was involved. It was not, however, discharged. Nor was anyone injured during the offense. This was his first offense; he thought (irrational, of course) it was his only option after his small business started falling apart.

Involving a firearm in the commission of a crime is an instant ticket on the Felony Express. If he hadn't had a gun (first offense or not, discharged or not, loaded or not, real or not) he likely would have been out a long time ago.

When you have a gun in that situation the number of things that can go wrong increases by an order of magnitude. The adrenaline could make him pull the trigger when he didn't really mean to. Someone in the bank tackling him could make it go off. Hell, it could jam and he could blow his own hand off.

I'm glad he's turned his life around but we can't have people committing armed robbery and going back out onto the street in three months.