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If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

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Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#91

Post by benatkin »

CodeMage wrote: post #27
MartinCron wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we as a development community rationally expect to grow the open source ecosystem and encourage people with this type of snobbery? There's one lesson that I'm personally taking from this, after unsolicited ridicule, one sincere apology, one bullshit non-apology, and one arrogant I have nothing to apologize for! If I build a small thing to scratch my own itch (which I often do) I'm going to think twice about s…

Let's face it, there seems to be nothing anyone can share on the Internet without someone else demonstrating John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [1]. I'm not saying everyone should always just let it slide, but try not to let it get to you, either. [1]: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

This doesn't apply as neither Steve Klabnik nor Corey Haines are anonymous.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#92

Post by joe_the_user »

CodeMage wrote: post #20
up_and_up wrote: post #4

> Now, I’m all for bad projects and bad code being called out. Bullshit, sorry. Questions to ask yourself before "calling out bad code". 1. Does this code belong to someone on your team? 2. Does your code rely on this code? 3. Does the code represent a risk to you or your business in some way? 4. Do you have the direct contact info for the developer so you can appropriately, discretely and professionally inform them…

Bullshit, sorry. I can't help feeling that this kind of attitude is what caused Heather to feel bad in the first place. I agree with your points, but the way you present them leaves a lot (of politeness) to desire.

Let me clear up the "basic decency" question for you; bad intentions should be "called out", skill level only needs to be commented on when someone is more less requiring that you to put with their skills. You should encourage people to higher skill levels only after they've asked for the help. Otherwise, they live in their world and if makes them happy, leave them there.

If someone is offering something to the world at large that you don't feel is a very skilled offering, you should shut the fuck up unless you want to seem like an asshole. The reason is both that they aren't hurting you in the least and that if you aren't interacting with them, your ability to judge their skills is going to be limited. Unless they're giving out poisoned candy or something, people who give should be congratulated.

If someone is somehow intentionally annoying, hurting, offending someone else, then it is entirely OK to tell them to stop. Bonuses for being clear and uninflammatory yourself, mandatory if you aren't an involved party.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#93

Post by MartinCron »

carbocation wrote: post #88
MartinCron wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want meaningful commentary or empty snarky ridicule?

I'm simply saying that at the moment, either of those would be more interesting than total ignorance.

Actually, this makes me think... I don't think I've ever given feedback on an open source project.

Maybe I, as someone horrified by Heather Arthur's story, have some sort of ethical obligation to provide constructive and helpful feedback to people. I'm not a great programmer, but I've been at this for long enough to have some useful opinions.

Open invitation for my fellow HN community members: point me at a repo and I'll try to say something actually helpful.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#94

Post by kristm »

up_and_up wrote: post #4

> Now, I’m all for bad projects and bad code being called out. Bullshit, sorry. Questions to ask yourself before "calling out bad code". 1. Does this code belong to someone on your team? 2. Does your code rely on this code? 3. Does the code represent a risk to you or your business in some way? 4. Do you have the direct contact info for the developer so you can appropriately, discretely and professionally inform them…

Maybe I'm an outsider, maybe I came from a different background, but I don't see how calling out bad code instantly becomes a type of snobbery. The author to me is leaning towards constructive criticism of code, which isn't what we all need from time to time? I don't mind, call out all the bad projects or bad code in my github repo

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#95

Post by vacri »

jussij wrote: post #78
vacri wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling someone's writings "bullshit" is pretty much the same as calling someone's code "eye-bleeding" -> "your product is of such low value it's worthless" Those that claim the genesis of this whole issue is offensive should take equal offense to the "bullshit" line.

I think that is drawing a fairly long bow. I read his use of the word bullshit as effectively saying rubbish, only in a more colourful way. So to paraphrase the OP I read him as saying: Rubbish, I don't agree with you and here is a list of reasons why?

I agree with you: "rubbish" is the same as "bullshit". It's still saying "what you've said is worthless".

I don't have a problem with it, but it is the same semantics as what started this whole issue - though he does expand into a list of reasons (which isn't possible on twitter).

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#96

Post by dvo »

MartinCron wrote: post #9
up_and_up wrote: post #4

> Now, I’m all for bad projects and bad code being called out. Bullshit, sorry. Questions to ask yourself before "calling out bad code". 1. Does this code belong to someone on your team? 2. Does your code rely on this code? 3. Does the code represent a risk to you or your business in some way? 4. Do you have the direct contact info for the developer so you can appropriately, discretely and professionally inform them…

How can we as a development community rationally expect to grow the open source ecosystem and encourage people with this type of snobbery? There's one lesson that I'm personally taking from this, after unsolicited ridicule, one sincere apology, one bullshit non-apology, and one arrogant I have nothing to apologize for! If I build a small thing to scratch my own itch (which I often do) I'm going to think twice about s…

Thinking about code in terms of "good" and "bad" is not very useful. Don't worry about what developers on the internet think about the quality of your code unless they offer specific suggestions in a constructive and instructive manner. If someone offers specific and thoughtful suggestions or criticism, learn everything you can from them.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#97

Post by asshole_hunter »

zeeg wrote: post #80

If you call out bad code, you call out bad people? Half of you included, look at the ridiculous shit you say, and how much more offensive you are than anything anyone originally said. Also this is great for a laugh: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/116385/Slingshot/Pictures/Screen%20S...

just shut up man and leave this for a while.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#98

Post by michaelochurch »

I think that one of many problems with our industry is that even many good engineers can't really tell good code from bad. (Bad engineers are already hopeless.) That's why there are so many flamewars over cosmetic bullshit like tabs-vs.-spaces. Most code flamewars are over style, not substance. But it's substance (overuse of inheritance, lack of interface integrity, inappropriate technical choices) that kills projects.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#100

Post by endgame »

Moto7451 wrote: post #28
pbiggar wrote: post #14

Another issue in the "is Node right for this" is that it's very very portable, significantly more so that shell scripts (Mac uses BSD utilities, windows has nothing unless you have cygwin), and even slightly more portable than python.

Not sure I follow. OS X comes with the Bash shell and I have plenty of shell scripts (bash and perl) for automating my dev environment and numerous other tasks that run fine on both Ubuntu and OS X. OS X using FreeBSD as its Unix layer doesn't preclude it from interoperability with other *nix like systems.

If you want to write shell scripts that are portable to places without GNU or other reasonably featured tools, you'll have to be careful.

http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf//manual/autoconf-2.69/h...

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