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If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

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Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#71

Post by pjungwir »

noonespecial wrote: post #11

I propose a solidarity movement: Heather Arthur day: On this special day we post useful code that we might otherwise be unwilling to post because of what other people might think of it. Because some people have the courage to do this anyway and when they do, it makes the world a better place. If just a few people do this, they might be considered crazy and laughed at, but if all of us do it, why then we'd have a move…

I had the same idea:

Ask HN: What is your dumbest project on Github? :-)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5112546

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#72

Post by vacri »

sillysaurus wrote: post #37
graue wrote: post #23

I see a lot of people saying you're going to keep personal projects to yourself (instead of putting them on GitHub or similar) because of this fracas. Please don't. The Twitter snark isn't normal, it's an exceptional case. It wouldn't be on the front page of HN if that kind of behavior were the norm. And it's the jerks on Twitter who came out looking bad here, not the author of the code. I really like how GitHub has…

The Twitter snark isn't normal, it's an exceptional case. No, this isn't true. It's completely normal. It's been normal since long before Twitter. In exactly the same way high school bullying is normal, this is most definitely (a) prevalent, and (b) a problem. But it won't change, because people tolerate it. You want me to open up my personal projects? It's not going to happen. It won't happen because we live in an e…

You could just as easily say the first is encouraging, and the second is ignorable, so you should make it public.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#73

Post by king_jester »

BCM43 wrote: post #52
sillysaurus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Twitter snark isn't normal, it's an exceptional case. No, this isn't true. It's completely normal. It's been normal since long before Twitter. In exactly the same way high school bullying is normal, this is most definitely (a) prevalent, and (b) a problem. But it won't change, because people tolerate it. You want me to open up my personal projects? It's not going to happen. It won't happen because we live in an e…

Can you link to other examples of this happening?

You can visit Twitter periodically for a week and see this happening everywhere, programming and dev hash tags included (heck, a lot of the trending topics on Twitter are hugely racist or sexist).

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#74

Post by MartinCron »

CodeMage wrote: post #27
MartinCron wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we as a development community rationally expect to grow the open source ecosystem and encourage people with this type of snobbery? There's one lesson that I'm personally taking from this, after unsolicited ridicule, one sincere apology, one bullshit non-apology, and one arrogant I have nothing to apologize for! If I build a small thing to scratch my own itch (which I often do) I'm going to think twice about s…

Let's face it, there seems to be nothing anyone can share on the Internet without someone else demonstrating John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory [1]. I'm not saying everyone should always just let it slide, but try not to let it get to you, either. [1]: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

I have shared literally thousands of photos on Flickr. Nobody has told me that my photos shouldn't exist of that my photos make their eyes bleed.

Can we, as a community, be at least as nice as serious amateur photographers?

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#75

Post by VMG »

up_and_up wrote: post #4

> Now, I’m all for bad projects and bad code being called out. Bullshit, sorry. Questions to ask yourself before "calling out bad code". 1. Does this code belong to someone on your team? 2. Does your code rely on this code? 3. Does the code represent a risk to you or your business in some way? 4. Do you have the direct contact info for the developer so you can appropriately, discretely and professionally inform them…

> Github == "Developer Playground/Experimentation Lab".

That doesn't preclude constructive criticism. I put my stuff on Github for review. Granted, I wouldn't like malicious comments but I sure as hell would like to know if I did something wrong.

> Why in the hell should I have to feel that every piece of code I put up there 'must' adhere to 'your' standards or anyone else's?

You don't have to feel that way if somebody points out your code has flaws. The issue in heathers case was (1) the code wasn't bad (2) the criticism was malicious.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#76

Post by graue »

sillysaurus wrote: post #37
graue wrote: post #23

I see a lot of people saying you're going to keep personal projects to yourself (instead of putting them on GitHub or similar) because of this fracas. Please don't. The Twitter snark isn't normal, it's an exceptional case. It wouldn't be on the front page of HN if that kind of behavior were the norm. And it's the jerks on Twitter who came out looking bad here, not the author of the code. I really like how GitHub has…

The Twitter snark isn't normal, it's an exceptional case. No, this isn't true. It's completely normal. It's been normal since long before Twitter. In exactly the same way high school bullying is normal, this is most definitely (a) prevalent, and (b) a problem. But it won't change, because people tolerate it. You want me to open up my personal projects? It's not going to happen. It won't happen because we live in an e…

> It's been normal since long before Twitter.

Exactly. And before GitHub. And before open source. And because haters will hate no matter what, we shouldn't let them stop us from sharing what we build and learn.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#77

Post by MartinCron »

reinhardt wrote: post #54
MartinCron wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we as a development community rationally expect to grow the open source ecosystem and encourage people with this type of snobbery? There's one lesson that I'm personally taking from this, after unsolicited ridicule, one sincere apology, one bullshit non-apology, and one arrogant I have nothing to apologize for! If I build a small thing to scratch my own itch (which I often do) I'm going to think twice about s…

Missing option: grow a thicker skin and don't take everything personally.

I actually think that a strong emotional reaction to unsolicited ridicule by high-profile people is a typical human response, not a weakness that needs to be beaten out of people.

Regardless, my point is that I don't think I'm able to grow a thick enough skin to be indifferent in the face of such cruelty, so I'm not going to extend myself. Other people may feel differently, and that's great for them.

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#78

Post by jussij »

vacri wrote: post #65
jussij wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politeness? The reply might have be forceful, might have use the word bullshit, but it what way did he offend anyone? I thought he hit the nail on the head. It's no body else’s business but your own what you choose to put in GitHub.

Calling someone's writings "bullshit" is pretty much the same as calling someone's code "eye-bleeding" -> "your product is of such low value it's worthless" Those that claim the genesis of this whole issue is offensive should take equal offense to the "bullshit" line.

I think that is drawing a fairly long bow. I read his use of the word bullshit as effectively saying rubbish, only in a more colourful way.

So to paraphrase the OP I read him as saying:

Rubbish, I don't agree with you and here is a list of reasons why?

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#79

Post by dpark »

ionforce wrote: post #57
dandelany wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, a million times this. Criticizing other people's code is a good idea if you have been asked for input, or if the developer is encouraging the public at large to use their code. Otherwise, it's just unwarranted negativity which has the net effect of discouraging other members of the community from sharing code which might be useful to someone. I have plenty of code that I'm not proud of but would push to Github…

Do you happen to know if the original developer did in fact ask for feedback?

No and yes. No, she did not ask anyone to post snarky comments on Twitter about her code. Yes, after said snarky comments were posted, she asked those posting the comments for constructive feedback. (I don't believe any of them actually gave her any constructive feedback, though.)

Re: If You Call Out Bad Code, Make Sure It's Bad First

#80

Post by zeeg »

If you call out bad code, you call out bad people?

Half of you included, look at the ridiculous shit you say, and how much more offensive you are than anything anyone originally said.

Also this is great for a laugh: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/116385/Slingshot/Pictures/Screen%20S...

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