Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#61

Post by outworlder » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:20 PM UTC

syedkarim wrote: post #30

Zimahl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree with the first regular job. He's been socially isolated for 18 years and probably has very little ability to function in the real world. A job at Pizza Hut or Starbucks will put some money in his pocket, get him self-sufficient, and interacting with people. He'll be able to rent an apartment and then he can spend time coding and learning in his off hours. While he's doing that he's going to have to hit the…

I'll definitely suggest the blog to him. While researching his situation I came across someone on Quora who was just recently released after 25 years. He writes extensively on the subject you're curious about: http://michaelsantos.com/ http://www.quora.com/Michael-Santos-4

One quote from those links in particular stands out:

> "The links above provide definitive proof that a prisoner can indeed write books. Bringing those books to market, however, could expose the person in prison to disciplinary problems. Since I brought many books to market during my lengthy odyssey, authorities frequently charged me with the disciplinary infraction of “conducting a business.” They locked me in solitary confinement numerous times and they frequently uprooted my family by transferring me in chains to prisons across state lines. "

I think that inmates should not be able to "conduct business" if they are illegal, indeed. And should not have cellphones or anything of the sort. But in this case, the guys should have been congratulated and his sentence reduced somewhat.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#62

Post by jeremyarussell » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:22 PM UTC

kjackson2012 wrote: post #41

scarmig wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He "deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him"? What if the law dictated life in prison, or the death penalty, or for him to be drawn and quartered? People, particularly young men in their early 20s, mess up. He certainly needed to be put in prison for years, but decades? The person someone is when they're 30 is wildly different from who they were when they were 20, biologically. Even if his crime actually en…

We're not talking about Jean Valjean who stole a loaf of bread to feed his family. It's someone who committed a violent crime of robbing a bank because they wanted someone else's money, and they didn't want to earn it the slow, hard way. They knew what they were doing was wrong. They need to accept the consequences of their actions, including 18 years in jail. I'm sure the person in question has done this, and that's…

Rarely are the minds of people who will go to this level as simple as greed. Often times it's to save a life that is falling apart, the stress of the situation leading you to make decisions that turn out to be bad. Is it selfish? Sometimes. Is it greed? Maybe to an extent. Is it simple? Never. In fact that's the only thing that is simple, that these things are always complicated.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#63

Post by syedkarim » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:25 PM UTC

mileszs wrote: post #60

If he is near Indianapolis, it could help to get involved in the local hacker scene. We have a pretty decent number of meetings and the like he could attend. See the calendar at http://indyhackers.org . I like to think we're pretty merit-based here, but it is a largely conservative state (though this city can be pretty "blue" compared to its surroundings), so I could be wrong. Knowing people is a significant portion…

Unfortunately, he will be starting out in Michigan City at a halfway house. But maybe Indianapolis is someplace he can transfer to? Are there any other hacker hubs in Indiana? West Lafayette? Valparaiso?

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#64

Post by jeremyarussell » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:25 PM UTC

I commend you for doing the right things. The system inherently goes against it's only goal, by sending people out that are almost guaranteed to commit another crime and unleashing even more upset people onto the population. Instead of keeping us safe it makes progressively more savage criminals, people that have to hurt or kill in order to survive in prison don't generally come out better for it.

I think the fact that you are even doing all this will keep your friend on the right track, that he has a friend to talk to may be the thing that keeps him from a depression that will send him towards a life of crime.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#65

Post by fearless » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:26 PM UTC

eduardordm wrote: post #2

First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans. He should have been released as soon as he posed no threat to others. If the US keeps its current course there will be more people inside prisons than outside of them in the future. He certainly has a lot of expectations. I can only imagine the pressure he is put…

The US prison system is messed up, but mostly with regard to nonviolent/drug offenders. I am very libertarian, but I don't think this is a valid criticism in this case. Robbing a bank is not "making a mistake once". Buying coke or shoplifting is making a mistake. Bank robbery is a premeditated, violent, serious crime, and society is right to punish it severely. If you're committing bank robbery, you're likely also committing lots of other crimes: assault, threats, criminal confinement, fleeing police, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#66

Post by qes » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:26 PM UTC

Long time lurker, created an account just to add a comment here. Your friend's situation hits close to home as I spent most of my 20's in prison and am a software developer.

He can move forward and be reasonably successful despite his felony record. There are plenty of people in the world who will be willing to look past that and give him a chance, but to be balanced, on the flip side there are equally many who will not. It saddens me to hear he has little family, it is hard to underestimate the value of personal support to a recent ex-con.

Job hunting can be difficult. Many organizations will flat out not consider you because of the felony record. I had good luck with smaller companies, where you met the boss and had the chance to make a personal impression, where I was given the opportunity to explain why I was sent to prison and why the employer should take what is admittedly a bigger chance on hiring me.

But here's the kicker with software development. I was already good at it before prison. It was no challenge to demonstrate some level of skill that outweighed the uncertainty of hiring a felon. In your friend's case, this may or may not work as well.

It's great that he had the chance to work with computers and Access in prison. I had similar opportunities and in fact learned .Net during my stay, letting me come back into the job market with relevant, polished skills.

My first job out of prison was the type that gives you plenty of fodder for The Daily WTF, but it was a job and it was much easier to get the second job than the first. If your friend can get his foot in the door - at any job - he'll have the opportunity to prove himself and may find that the disadvantage of a felonious past fades quickly into the background. My experience has been that if you can actually do useful work as a programmer and show this to potential employers, you will quickly get past the felony tag. A programmer that can produce is still a hot commodity at least in my area (and Indiana is likely no different).

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#67

Post by ahoyhere » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:27 PM UTC

FaceKicker wrote: post #38

eduardordm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think because I live in an extremely violent place it changed the way I think about prisons. I'm not saying that you or me are right or wrong, really. Most criminals are already living in hell. You send them to a prison with this idea that you are punishing them with the clear intention of feeling good in some way (maybe closure?). What people lack of understanding is that prisons are not real punishment for those…

> What people lack of understanding is that prisons are not real punishment for those who are actually there. Some of them might even like it. So, prisons are not efficient in punishment nor rehabilitation. Maybe they're not effective punishment or rehabilitation, but I would certainly say they're an effective deterrent. They might not be a punishment for anyone in there, but they could still be (and at least in my c…

By the by, there's no definitive research that shows that prison sentences act as a deterrent against crime. And there's a lot of research on crime & punishment out there.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q...

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#68

Post by fearless » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:28 PM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #49

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

I still don't think nonviolent drug crimes are the same as bank robbery. When you commit a bank robbery with a loaded firearm, you're telling society you have no problem taking a person's life for a little money. If people change, why is the recidivism rate for felons over 50%? And those are just the ones who get caught. Again, I'm speaking strictly to violent crimes here. Nonviolent/drug offenders should be treated very differently.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#69

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:29 PM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #49

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

> We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations.

I think you're spot-on. Revenge and shaming is a part of healing, of course, because it helps the community: 1) vent its frustration at a lawbreaker; 2) send a signal that such actions won't be tolerated. But we've gone from a "healthy amount of revenge" (so to speak) to such extreme punishments that reintegration becomes nearly impossible. To the community, someone who get 18 years for a crime must be a truly irredeemable person, right? To the imprisoned, a society that punishes him so harshly cannot be something that will welcome him back, right?

Prison sentences keep going up because recidivism is high, and the amount of crime in the U.S. is dramatically higher than in other western countries. But I think longer prison sentences make both of those things worse. Recidivism might go down if weren't nearly impossible for felons to re-integrate into society.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#70

Post by hackingla » Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 7:29 PM UTC

syedkarim wrote: post #59

hackingla wrote: post #51

#1: Learn Rails - i would suggest a few rails cast a day #2: Make a few sites; I will help w/ this as much as he needs #3: As you make sites blog daily about your progress learning Once you feel comfortable post on job sites, ODesk etc... and start building up your reputation. my email is on profile he can email me or you (OP) can

Do you have any thoughts on this remote Rails class: http://www.gotealeaf.com/ I'd be willing to pay the tuition if it's really useful for someone who has still not ever seen/used a web browser.

It would take more information to properly determine what the best starting poing would be for him; but if he has not used a web browser I suggests starting w/

1. email setup 2. google 3. facebook

etc... basically as much basic computer usage as possible; IMO rails classes like that and pretty much everyone else is going to assume their audience is comfortable w/ computers and other modern day technologies.