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"I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

erlang.org

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Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#71

Post by laumars »

fusiongyro wrote: post #63
laumars wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggled with that point of his. From a coding speed perspective, he's right. But from an efficiency perspective, even some of the slowest interpreted languages will run circles around a shell script. However it's still an interesting and thought provoking point. It makes you wonder about other ways of plugging different objects / modules together.

"Today there is an unhealthy concentration on language and efficiency and NOT on how things fit together and protocols." -- Joe, two paragraphs below the point we're discussing.

I think you're being a little unfair there because he's talking about an "unhealthy concentration". Using a lower level language instead of a shell script for high performance scripts isn't unhealthy as it's not a case of just saving a negligible number of clock cycles. The difference I'm talking about like travelling to the moon and back just to buy a pint of milk.

Case in point: no sane person would rewrite Apache in Bash. But equally I wouldn't rewrite any of my sys admin shell scripts in C.

There's a balance that needs to be struck. Which I did also hint at in my previous post (the one you dismissed outright when arguing about 'unhealthy concentrations'). And I think what Joe actually meant by that quote was the same thing; that many developers are bad at judging that balance.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#72

Post by sw007 »

ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

Most sensible comment I have seen on HN for some while.

"At some point, this has to stop. We, as a community, must grow to support the betterment of hacking by creating and encouraging creation; not by petty vitriol and conformism based on fashion."

Well said

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#73

Post by gordonguthrie »

PurplePanda wrote: post #33
ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

Each language has its purpose, however humble. Each language expresses the Yin and Yang of software. Each language has its place within the Tao. But do not program in COBOL if you can avoid it. The Tao Of Programming verse 1.3

In order to write invent COBOL Rear Admiral Grace Hopper had to invent programming languages, compilers, linkers and the entire modern IT industry - and then she had to implement them, without a programming language or a compiler or a linker.

That is the TAO of COBOL - the mother of us all.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#74

Post by laumars »

peteretep wrote: post #48
laumars wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joe Armstrong did help create Erlang with Bjarne Dacker: Erlang was created at the CSLab by an initial team of Joe Armstrong, Mike Williams and Robert Virding. http://www.erlang-factory.com/conference/SFBay2010/speakers/...

Unless I'm mistaken, you can see him in the link posted, too, making phone calls to the other developers...

Ahhh that's what you meant by your post.

Your original comment was a little cryptic (either that, or I've not had enough coffee today hehe)

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#75

Post by gordonguthrie »

brudgers wrote: post #35
3pt14159 wrote: post #11

To me, this list is great except for one small thing. - C - Prolog - Erlang - Smalltalk - Javascript - Hakell / ML /OCaml - LISP/Scheme/Clojure Javascript?! Over Ruby or Python or Lua? What is it with people liking Javascript. I really don't get it. What can I do that is so beautiful or mindbending that I can't do in python? From my experience there is only two reasons to learn Javascript: to be able to build web app…

I know it's wrong, but I've used pliers on bicycle wheel nuts. They were at hand and the Park wrench wasn't. But what the hell, the tire was flat and it was a long walk home.I am a kludgaholic. And not seeing it as a problem. The author was using Fortran on punch cards and considered himself lucky [Enter: three more Yorkshiremen ...]

I started on Punch cards... Back in '86 we had a Bulgarian over at Bristol and he told us that in Bulgaria you only got one compile so if you wanted to change your programme you had to edit the object deck (ie assembler in punch cards).

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#76

Post by [deleted] »

brudgers wrote: post #35
3pt14159 wrote: post #11

To me, this list is great except for one small thing. - C - Prolog - Erlang - Smalltalk - Javascript - Hakell / ML /OCaml - LISP/Scheme/Clojure Javascript?! Over Ruby or Python or Lua? What is it with people liking Javascript. I really don't get it. What can I do that is so beautiful or mindbending that I can't do in python? From my experience there is only two reasons to learn Javascript: to be able to build web app…

I know it's wrong, but I've used pliers on bicycle wheel nuts. They were at hand and the Park wrench wasn't. But what the hell, the tire was flat and it was a long walk home.I am a kludgaholic. And not seeing it as a problem. The author was using Fortran on punch cards and considered himself lucky [Enter: three more Yorkshiremen ...]

[deleted]

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#77

Post by gordonguthrie »

sgt wrote: post #6

>> Things improved - I went to CERN and used the CRAY1 this could compile 100K lines of FORTRAN in 1 picosecond (ie about a zillion times slower than my mobile phone today) Sarcasm doesn't translate well in a thread like this, so just in case someone really thought it could compile 100K lines in a picosecond, dream on. :-)

I shifted to a Cray1 in 87 and I had a whole 25 minutes of CPU a year...

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#78

Post by klibertp »

koide wrote: post #40
__alexs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python has closures, it just doesn't have a very convenient anonymous function syntax. I can't say I miss function () { .. } very often though.

AFAIU Python's closure have been incomplete for a long time. I think they've become true, complete closures after the addition of the nonlocal keyword on 3.0 Please correct me if I'm mistaken. This all comes from a cursory research on the subject.

In short, in your opinion, Python has no "complete" closures because you cannot bind a new value to the name from enclosing lexical scope from within a nested scope. I disagree.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#79

Post by JPKab »

ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

I found it revealing that he appeared to not only like Javascript, but liked it better than Python and Ruby. Interesting. I personally have grown to love coding in Javascript, but I'm a dumbass who doesn't know Lua, Erlang, Haskell, etc. It would be interesting to hear his perspective on JS.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#80

Post by jasonlotito »

_nato_ wrote: post #39

Joe is fearless and an inspiration. For those with 25~ dollars to spare, pick up Joe's 'Programming Erlang' and never regret it. I _think_ differently after reading that book. I am mainly a musician, but what he uncovered for me regarding our brains and how we think blew me away.

Just going to second this comment. First, for reference, here is the book mentioned:

http://pragprog.com/book/jaerlang/programming-erlang

But yes, I agree, the book is an excellent, enjoyable read. I wish I had more opportunities to use erlang in my day job.

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