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What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

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Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#181

Post by tubbo »

anthonyb wrote: post #127
byroot wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus is often rude, but AFAIK not gratuitously, but I may have missed some of his public messages. But even if it's the case, he is rude with the guys who work with him, his "captains" that he knows since a long time. He do not bash a random project on Github totally unrelated to him just like that. You can't compare.

No, Linus is often gratuitously rude.

He's usually rude to code presented to him, but he doesn't go out of his way to diss code. It's a big difference.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#182

Post by akkartik »

anthonyb wrote: post #163
shardling wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yelling at someone you're in an argument with is a world away from picking on a stranger. (It's not necessarily good , but it is categorically different behavior.)

Dressing down someone like that on a public mailing list is absolutely picking on them. It's not an argument, and is basically no different to the behaviour here.

It is basically worlds opposite to the behavior here.

a. Linus uses swear words. Steve Klabnik used none.

b. Linus provides substantive criticism. Even if you need flame-retardant underwear to hear it.

c. Linus never ever ridicules outsiders.

So what do the two have in common, again?

I loved the mauro thread because you're seeing Linus talking to an insider of an influential project and tell him that the relative outsider with no status is right. By doing it publicly he reinforces the culture of the kernel: we don't break user code. We are a meritocracy, and if you're wrong I will not be shy about letting you know.

He could do it with less profanity. But I heartily support his doing it so emphatically. Nobody else on lkml will brush something off as a userland bug for a year.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#183

Post by doktrin »

mintplant wrote: post #43

> Steve Klabnik ‏@steveklabnik > @harthvader @zeeg nothing's _wrong_ with it, but I don't want to build my app on top of others' code who are at this level of understanding This message [1] in particular is absolutely disgusting. Someone hacked together a script that met their needs, and threw it up onto GitHub in case anyone else found it useful? Yes, let's take the opportunity to condescendingly insult their mental…

> What does he even mean by saying that he doesn't "want to build my app" on top of harthur's code? Nobody asked him to

I can't speak for him, but based on another comment further down ("I'll be over here in not-node"), it read like a dig at Node itself by proxy / extension.

> Yes, let's take the opportunity to condescendingly insult their mental competency.

Indeed. This type of behavior is almost never justified, but particularly less so when the object of scorn is clearly an exceedingly talented programmer. One glance at her GH profile reveals several well-used open source projects, including a neural network library and a bayesian classifier.

It really does drive home the point that if this can happen to someone of her caliber, then it really can happen to anyone. In fact, it probably does - except with less public attention.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#184

Post by spin »

rachelbythebay wrote: post #39

I get a fair amount of ridicule any time anything I write makes it into sites like reddit, and a small amount (depending on topic) when it makes it onto HN. When one of my posts hit the front page yesterday, I decided to re-read "How to Disagree": http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html Having done that, I can now just privately laugh at anyone who fails to come up with an adequate refutation of my central point. Peo…

I have to agree. You need to look at the quality of the people who like you vs hate you.

There's plenty of haters on the Internet. As jrockway said (just a couple comments up): "If you do something, chances are someone hates you. Why? They are jealous that you are getting attention instead of them."

I heard a metaphor once: You've got a bucket full of crabs. If one crab tries to crawl up and out of the bucket, the other crabs drag him back down.

Try your best to ignore the haters.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#185

Post by numbnuts »

Steve Klabnik's apology:

https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/294302391279435776

https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/294302539510337536

He posted this ~2 years ago: http://blog.steveklabnik.com/posts/2010-09-24-trolling-is-a-...

I guess he's still working on his communication skills.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#187

Post by thetron »

sinak wrote: post #131
jlongster wrote: post #36

What the fuck. (And I rarely say that word.) We've got to grow up. This is 9th grade all over again. You know, those weird people that do things that you don't understand? They're the ones that grow up and make big impacts on the world. Why can't we get over our negativity? We can't stop ourselves from thinking horrible things, or even saying them out loud to people around us, but surely we can restrain ourselves fro…

Corey Haines wrote a thoughtful apology here: http://programmingtour.blogspot.com/2013/01/im-sorry.html Only one of the three to do so thus far.

Super relieved to see that - I was seriously disappointed to see Corey's name in amongst the mob. That's how an apology should be written.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#190

Post by stch »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #150
mintplant wrote: post #43

> Steve Klabnik ‏@steveklabnik > @harthvader @zeeg nothing's _wrong_ with it, but I don't want to build my app on top of others' code who are at this level of understanding This message [1] in particular is absolutely disgusting. Someone hacked together a script that met their needs, and threw it up onto GitHub in case anyone else found it useful? Yes, let's take the opportunity to condescendingly insult their mental…

Steve Klabnik: "I find it incredibly hard not to be judgmental. I'm not sure what part of my personality makes this happen, but even when I try to curb tearing down other people, I end up doing it anyway. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think part of the problem is that these kinds of things are rewarded." http://blog.steveklabnik.com/posts/2010-09-24-trolling-is-a-...

"I am too cowardly/lazy to actually treat people with any sort of respect, and really I never matured out of kindergarten bully tactics"

Am I wrong for interpreting it this way?

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