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iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

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Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#31

Post by greenyoda »

runn1ng wrote: post #9
zmanji wrote: post #5

If anyone thinks weev deserves any sympathy, you don't know the full story. weev had malicious intent and wanted to harm AT&T by exposing users data. Instead of doing anything remotely rational he took all the data and wanted to sell it. Laws take into account indent (mens rea) and there is a lot of evidence in his indictment that he wanted to profit off this act. He shouldn't be compared to Aaron Swartz

More information about the case from ars technica, that supports your story http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/01/goatse-security-trolls-...

I don't approve of his motives or actions either, but still, it seems that spending years in jail is a disproportionate punishment for the amount of harm he may have caused AT&T or its customers. This article says that they had second thoughts about how smart their plans actually were and ended up deleting the data rather than selling it to anybody. And it's doubtful that their actions had any lasting effect on the stock price of AT&T - data leaks are a fairly frequent occurrence among large corporations.

Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#34

Post by ghshephard »

zyb09 wrote: post #18
zmanji wrote: post #5

If anyone thinks weev deserves any sympathy, you don't know the full story. weev had malicious intent and wanted to harm AT&T by exposing users data. Instead of doing anything remotely rational he took all the data and wanted to sell it. Laws take into account indent (mens rea) and there is a lot of evidence in his indictment that he wanted to profit off this act. He shouldn't be compared to Aaron Swartz

Yeah but prison time, followed by secret service, not allowed to use computers, not allowed to take jobs... for what, compiling a list of email addresses that an public API was happily returning to him? Despite his questionable handling of the situation, I don't support that kind of draconian punishment.

Agreed - I can despise his behavior, and how he handled this situation, but at the same time say what he did should not be considered a felony, and, based on what I read on the ArsTechnica article, it's not even clear if I feel like it's criminal.

Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#35

Post by greenyoda »

whyenot wrote: post #19
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no indication he wanted to sell it. He wanted to embarrass AT&T, and that isn't a crime. Changing the number in a URL is not identity fraud. This is exactly the same thing that was thrown at Aaron, even if you don't find the target as sympathetic. "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to…

That does not appear to be true. From the Ars Technica article on the case: "Auernheimer then helped Spitler refine his script to harvest a large number of valid e-mail addresses of iPad 3G users, suggesting that a huge data set would be needed to "direct market iPad accessories" or start a "future massive phishing operation," noting that the data breach would be "huge media news."

But that article then goes on to say that they eventually chickened out and deleted the data without having sold it to anyone.

Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#36

Post by gokhan »

zmanji wrote: post #5

If anyone thinks weev deserves any sympathy, you don't know the full story. weev had malicious intent and wanted to harm AT&T by exposing users data. Instead of doing anything remotely rational he took all the data and wanted to sell it. Laws take into account indent (mens rea) and there is a lot of evidence in his indictment that he wanted to profit off this act. He shouldn't be compared to Aaron Swartz

Yeah yeah. He should "man up" or something like that. Those bastard hackers, self declared trolls, activists and stuff...

Do you guys always know the full story behind the news and comment accordingly? If you do based on the articles you read around, I want to remind you that in Aaron's case what you could read about the case was less than half the truth and there are still things we're not sure.

Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#37

Post by ghshephard »

rayiner wrote: post #30
RyanZAG wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? That you actually believe his punishment fits the crime is incredibly saddening. If even the top voted comment on a site that understands the issue believes the punishment is appropriate, imagine the discussion in a law firm or in parliament. Anybody in the USA touching a computer will be in trouble soon. Can't wait for the next batch of laws.

Punishing people for purposefully disclosing private information that is clearly not intended to be public is the path to "everyone touching a computer will be in trouble soon?" You act as if he was just playing around on his own computer minding his own business when the big bad government broke his door down. In Texas, they don't convict homeowners who shoot trick or treaters trespassing on private property: http:/…

Wasn't it just email addresses that he published? I'm all for protecting personal information, but I find it hard to believe it's a felony for collecting a list of email addresses.

Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#38

Post by rdl »

zmanji wrote: post #5

If anyone thinks weev deserves any sympathy, you don't know the full story. weev had malicious intent and wanted to harm AT&T by exposing users data. Instead of doing anything remotely rational he took all the data and wanted to sell it. Laws take into account indent (mens rea) and there is a lot of evidence in his indictment that he wanted to profit off this act. He shouldn't be compared to Aaron Swartz

I know weev personally. He's "an unsympathetic defendant", and probably the 9th level Internet Troll, but his goal was fundamentally speech -- he wanted to draw a lot of attention to the issue, and embarrass ATT (hopefully enough that they'd stop being such fuckups about security), etc.

He wasn't trying to profit from this. If that had been his goal, he would have been a lot more stealthy.

It's arguable that he had "cleaner" motives in his act than aaronsw -- some people say aaronsw wanted to release all the files he recovered to the Internet (although there's no proof of that); weev just wanted ATT to suck less.

weev has said things far worse than what's alleged in this case (that they wanted to compile a list and direct market the users); yet, if you judge him by what he's actually done, he's just an asshole at times, but basically reasonable. Fortunately just being an ass isn't a federal crime (although I guess conspiracy to be an ass is).

Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#39

Post by rayiner »

ghshephard wrote: post #37
rayiner wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punishing people for purposefully disclosing private information that is clearly not intended to be public is the path to "everyone touching a computer will be in trouble soon?" You act as if he was just playing around on his own computer minding his own business when the big bad government broke his door down. In Texas, they don't convict homeowners who shoot trick or treaters trespassing on private property: http:/…

Wasn't it just email addresses that he published? I'm all for protecting personal information, but I find it hard to believe it's a felony for collecting a list of email addresses.

The crime in question was accessing a computer system in an unauthorized fashion to collect e-mail addresses.

Yes, the distinction is relevant. Taking photos of my wife in public and publishing them? Creepy but not illegal. Walking through my door (locked or unlocked, it doesn't matter) to take photos of my wife in my house? You're lucky if you don't get shot.

Re: iPad Hack Statement Of Responsibility

#40

Post by guard-of-terra »

zmanji wrote: post #5

If anyone thinks weev deserves any sympathy, you don't know the full story. weev had malicious intent and wanted to harm AT&T by exposing users data. Instead of doing anything remotely rational he took all the data and wanted to sell it. Laws take into account indent (mens rea) and there is a lot of evidence in his indictment that he wanted to profit off this act. He shouldn't be compared to Aaron Swartz

So what? The reaction suggests that the next time he will pastebin his next hack all right. Is this what we as a society want?
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