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The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.de

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Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#21

Post by pcrh »

dmm wrote: post #8
OGinparadise wrote: post #7

It's great as long as you know you are not getting a full picture. You see what they want you to see, if you think any different you are delusional. If you approach anyone on the street, you will most likely get them in trouble and it's very unlikely for them to tell the truth (even "the veggies are kinda brownish" is subversion and by now they have seen what happens to their "subversive" neighbors and maybe family m…

History will judge us very harshly for what we have all allowed to happen in north korea. Everyone should see Adrian Hong's speech: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4170683 He's co-founded a NGO that helps escapees from dprk. One challenge I always have when I speak about North Korea is I run out of adjectives for how bad things are. And many of you that follow policy or human rights situations oftentimes get jaded wi…

"History will judge us very harshly for what we have all allowed to happen in north korea."

History isn't judging "us" harshly for Rwanda, Somalia, etc, so I doubt it will judge "us" harshly for the DPRK. It will likely judge those directly responsible, however, for example the army of the DPRK.

The reason is that they they are keeping their population in a developmental limbo that benefits no one except the the elite.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#22

Post by adrianm »

pygy_ wrote: post #18
adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

Horrific, indeed. They also put child workers in drugs fields because they are less likely to abuse or steal it. Sorry to pick nit after this awful depiction, but this oversight is too common: > If the statistic of six million Jews murdered during the Holocaust shocks and disgusts you [...] Add 5 millions of Romani, homosexuals, disabled people and slavic prisoners of war. Popular history tends to forget them.

I agree with you. It's really not even a nitpick, it's the truth that should be emphasized more.

It doesn't look like I'm able to edit my original comment, unfortunately.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#23

Post by twentysix »

adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

He mentioned the Yodok camp in his travelogue. If the account given in Wikipedia is true, the conditions there are truly horific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodok_concentration_camp#Condi...

It sounds like one of the worst places on earth and we wont know the true extent of the horror until the situation changes there and the country opens up.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#24

Post by ars »

Sulfolobus wrote: post #20
adrianm wrote: post #13

I really had no idea how horrible the humanitarian crisis in North Korea really was until I began reading about it yesterday after checking out the blog post that was on the front page here. I feel ashamed I have been ignorant for so long. In summary of what I've learned, it's generally accepted that there are around 200,000 people kept in active concentration camps [1]. There are two types of camps: those for politi…

This is why I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the "visiting North Korea" stuff. You are directly funding the regime.

You are, but ignoring things and people never visiting would be worse.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#26

Post by kalleboo »

mjn wrote: post #16
derleth wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History will judge us very harshly for what we have all allowed to happen in north korea. Is there any way of stopping it short of a bloody, protracted war?

The proximity of populated areas of South Korea, and the touchiness of China over intervention in the area, are particular problems. If it weren't for those, the U.S. would probably have bombed the North at one point or another, especially once the nuclear tests gave a plausible excuse to do so. If anything there was a better argument for attacking North Korea than for its fellow "axis of evil" member Iraq (on either…

But what strategic interest does the US have in North Korea? To get closer to China?

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#27

Post by wahnfrieden »

ars wrote: post #24
Sulfolobus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the "visiting North Korea" stuff. You are directly funding the regime.

You are, but ignoring things and people never visiting would be worse.

The people visiting only see staged theatrics, it doesn't do a whole lot of good.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#28

Post by theorm »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15
lmm wrote: post #2

I went London-Shanghai (and ultimately Osaka) last year; one of the most affecting parts of that journey was going through the deserts of Kazakhstan and north-west China (e.g. https://www.cliché.net/photos/2012-04-02%20Trip/SDC16011.JPG and https://www.cliché.net/photos/2012-04-02%20Trip/SDC16084.JPG - hosted on my home connection so will be slow), which you miss by staying on the trans-siberian line. It's also a cha…

I took a train from Shanghai to Urumuqi once, took 2 and a half days; China is just freaking big. Beijing Pyongyang is/was open to tourists at least a few years ago, they put you in a special car while everyone else gets off somewhere in Liaoning.

The train Beijing-Pyongyang is still running indeed. I took it half a year ago.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#29

Post by ars »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #27
ars wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are, but ignoring things and people never visiting would be worse.

The people visiting only see staged theatrics, it doesn't do a whole lot of good.

I don't know - I certainly found out a lot about North Korea from those visits. I assume you did too.

Re: The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang (2008)

#30

Post by ekianjo »

derleth wrote: post #12
dmm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History will judge us very harshly for what we have all allowed to happen in north korea. Everyone should see Adrian Hong's speech: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4170683 He's co-founded a NGO that helps escapees from dprk. One challenge I always have when I speak about North Korea is I run out of adjectives for how bad things are. And many of you that follow policy or human rights situations oftentimes get jaded wi…

> History will judge us very harshly for what we have all allowed to happen in north korea. Is there any way of stopping it short of a bloody, protracted war?

Stop giving them food and financial help. A difficult decision indeed, but what we are doing currently is giving just enough for the current regime to continue working forever as it is.

Should the population go poorer than they are currently, they may revolt on their own in an unprecedented scale. Or the regime will take progressive reforms to allow of bit of capitalism to pervase in their society and slowly change the economic landscape.

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