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Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

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Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#51

Post by jrogers65 »

RossM wrote: post #39
jrogers65 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6-12 months learning how to code? Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. It takes years to reach a reasonable level of competence in software development and on the order of a decade to master it. The problem with taking people's word on how much work they do when they are involved in marketing and the so…

> Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. You're absolutely right that this isn't scalable, but if you're just looking to validate your idea why shouldn't an app made by someone with a few months of experience suffice? Once you've proven there's value in the idea with the prototype, I imagine it'd be a lot…

Yes and no. The problem is that most of the time the train of thought goes something like:

* we already have a working product

* we might aswell just add the features and visual polish we need and then launch as soon as possible

* we have too much work to do to rewrite it

* we can't refactor effectively because automated tests are mostly missing

This results in the project becoming increasingly burdened with technical debt, where it becomes impossible to add new features without breaking something. The next step after this is usually a rewrite (which, given the low quality of developers already in the company, since nobody sane will work on such bad code, is also likely to fail, unless IT is restaffed completely).

If the prototype is binned outright and the rewrite happens at the very start, I imagine that this can be avoided. Again, the trap here is that if the founder learned to write code in 6-12 months then they will be in that cute phase where they think that programming is easy and will not realise this.

In short, having a senior developer on board (at the very least as a consultant) from the very start appears to be mandatory for long term success and minimisation of headaches. It's just what I've seen in the real world. Companies which went for quality from the very start grew rapidly. Those which attempted to minimise development costs at the expense of quality did not reach the heights.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#52

Post by coopdog »

mmahemoff wrote: post #18
OafTobark wrote: post #4

Should note that another major issue not mentioned in this post (of which I am sure there are more) is what the idea guy brings to the table beyond the idea. Majority over estimate their abilities, skills, knowledge, background, and even work ethics to such a shameful degree...

This is the crux of it. In other industries, the "idea guy" would usually be an investor bringing $$$ to the table. A random hustler can't just approach a civil engineer with "an idea" to partner on a new bridge and expect the engineer to quit working and give up the next few years. They have to offer major value. I think the best thing a non-technical founder can do is follow lean principles and bring actual data to…

Definitely. Anyone coming to me with an idea I say that's great, just follow the lean principles to develop a non-technical MVP, and I'm in. Haven't had anyone come back with a proven MVP yet : P

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#53

Post by Hawkee »

I think it really comes down to the initial monetary investment of the idea guy. For the idea guy to approach a developer with a $200 software package and $8/mo web hosting they've got very little vested. Asking the developer to invest what amounts to anywhere from $60-$150/hr of development hours is unreasonable. Now if the idea guy has invested thousands into data, a nice piece of co-located hardware, exclusive partnerships with reputable advertisers, etc. we might have something. The idea is worth very little in terms of investment. I think the equity breakdown can be broken down as such: 5% for the idea and the dollar for dollar investment by each party.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#54

Post by jrogers65 »

badatmath wrote: post #42
jrogers65 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6-12 months learning how to code? Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. It takes years to reach a reasonable level of competence in software development and on the order of a decade to master it. The problem with taking people's word on how much work they do when they are involved in marketing and the so…

Novice with 7 months of learning here. Quit my strategy consulting job to focus full time on learning to code, and am currently working on this project, built in Rails, on Heroku (it's all in Japanese, but the concept is similar to Hacker News/Reddit) http://www.daidake.com Is this a bad idea? Would like to hear your thoughts. I have to admit I do feel like I'm in a little bit over my head, in that once/if I start ge…

I appreciate that resources are always tight in these situations so I would recommend that you hire an experienced developer to review your code. It's cheaper than hiring someone full time and you should still be able to get a lot of value out of it. They will know about nuances and gotchas that only years of working on code can teach. Addressing those early rather than late is probably a good idea.

A cheaper (no money but more time spent) alternative is to use forums and IRC channels to get advice. There are plenty of knowledgable people who are more than willing to help if you ask.

Some basics which are vitally important to cover are ensuring that the object model and database schema are solid and extensible, that there are automated tests in place (especially for business critical functionality), that everything is documented (otherwise you will waste inordinate amounts of time explaining how things work to any developers you hire in the future and/or relearning parts of your own code after forgetting what it does) and that everything is backed up to multiple locations. Addressing those concerns puts you well ahead of the pack.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#55

Post by Swizec »

As a guy specialising on developing MVPs for people with ideas, here is the general list of rules I use before taking on a project:

1. Are you willing to pay my normal rate?

2. If so, can you convince me the market is there and you know how to address it.

3. Can you convince me _you_ are the guy who's going to be able to bring it all together?

I know that after rule 1 I shouldn't care, but with so many potential projects out there, I like working on ones I think will amount to something rather than spending two months coding and then having it all thrown away. Call it a personal satisfaction thing.

Fundamentally, the rules amount to equity isn't tasty.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#56

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

chrisbennet wrote: post #19

"You'd be crazy to have me work on this for a few months for 50% equity when you could just spend 6-12 months yourself learning to code and doing it yourself and have 100% equity. Of course, if you don't think it is worth spending a few months of your own time why should I take a chance on it?"

> you could just spend 6-12 months yourself learning to code and doing it yourself and have 100% equity

Would you say that to a lawyer? To an engineer? To an athlete? To an artisan? So why do people say crap like that about programmers all the time?

Programming might be easy, but programming a product you can sell is hard alright. Let's stop pretending programming is sitting in front of an IDE and typing something that compiles/runs, in the same way we pretend anyone who operates a DSLR is a professional photographer.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#57

Post by yoaviram »

It boils down to this: startups hardly fail because of technology (they do because of marketing). So no matter how good a developer is, he/she still has a very limited affect on success. Therefore taking equity, event a 50% stake is not a smart investment. Unfortunately startups can rarely afford to pay normal rates.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#58

Post by badatmath »

jrogers65 wrote: post #54
badatmath wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Novice with 7 months of learning here. Quit my strategy consulting job to focus full time on learning to code, and am currently working on this project, built in Rails, on Heroku (it's all in Japanese, but the concept is similar to Hacker News/Reddit) http://www.daidake.com Is this a bad idea? Would like to hear your thoughts. I have to admit I do feel like I'm in a little bit over my head, in that once/if I start ge…

I appreciate that resources are always tight in these situations so I would recommend that you hire an experienced developer to review your code. It's cheaper than hiring someone full time and you should still be able to get a lot of value out of it. They will know about nuances and gotchas that only years of working on code can teach. Addressing those early rather than late is probably a good idea. A cheaper (no mon…

Thanks. Really appreciate the feedback.

It's so tempting to keep build quick and sloppy, but I know I need to be more diligent with testing and documenting.

I'm setting a relatively low target number of users to acquire just to make sure this idea has a chance, before bringing on a developer.

Very broad question, but how does one find an experienced developer? I live in New York, but have zero tech connections.

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