Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

swombat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 114 posts

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#41

Post by jiggy2011 »

RossM wrote: post #39
jrogers65 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6-12 months learning how to code? Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. It takes years to reach a reasonable level of competence in software development and on the order of a decade to master it. The problem with taking people's word on how much work they do when they are involved in marketing and the so…

> Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. You're absolutely right that this isn't scalable, but if you're just looking to validate your idea why shouldn't an app made by someone with a few months of experience suffice? Once you've proven there's value in the idea with the prototype, I imagine it'd be a lot…

Depends on how complex your MVP is. The problem for non technical people is that they probably don't know how technically challenging the problem is.

If it's a cat pictures site maybe a few months is enough to learn enough code to validate the idea. OTOH if you want to build a search engine maybe not so much.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#42

Post by badatmath »

jrogers65 wrote: post #25
chrisbennet wrote: post #19

"You'd be crazy to have me work on this for a few months for 50% equity when you could just spend 6-12 months yourself learning to code and doing it yourself and have 100% equity. Of course, if you don't think it is worth spending a few months of your own time why should I take a chance on it?"

6-12 months learning how to code? Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. It takes years to reach a reasonable level of competence in software development and on the order of a decade to master it. The problem with taking people's word on how much work they do when they are involved in marketing and the so…

Novice with 7 months of learning here. Quit my strategy consulting job to focus full time on learning to code, and am currently working on this project, built in Rails, on Heroku (it's all in Japanese, but the concept is similar to Hacker News/Reddit) http://www.daidake.com

Is this a bad idea? Would like to hear your thoughts. I have to admit I do feel like I'm in a little bit over my head, in that once/if I start getting a lot of users, I really have no idea how to scale this thing. I figure I need to start networking to find a brain that wants to team with me.

I'm glad I've learned to program though, even if at a beginner level. If this fails (I already have a previous project that was a resounding failure), I can test out new projects easily.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#43

Post by amikazmi »

Wilya wrote: post #37

If you're trying to recruit Swombat when looking for a developer to build your idea, then yes, you probably won't be very successful. On the other hand, if you're bringing something to the table, and try to contact developers who are.. well.. mainly developers (as opposed to expensive consultants with decades of experience), your success rate might be higher. And by "something", I don't mean code (nor the idea, but t…

I can value the skills of another developer. I can't value "well-connected" or "marketing/sales skills"

So if a developer comes to me with an idea, I can evaluate the partnership better- it is less risky then to go with a partner with complementary skills (not saying it's better to do it, it's just easier to figure out what you are getting into)

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#44

Post by jasonkester »

kami8845 wrote: post #9
marklit wrote: post #5

Lots of contracts in London are paying £350 a day. £350 / day * 48 working weeks of the year * 5 days a week = £84,000 / year. £55,498.64 in your pocket after tax. Compare this to ~5 - 10 years of working for peanuts in a startup hoping for an exit. Keep your eye on the clients who agree to short payment terms, forget the dreamers.

blah blah blah. Same contracting comparison that gets thrown into seemingly every thread. As an employee you get work guaranteed, as a freelancer you have to work for every hour of work twice (once to get it, once to actually do it). You also have to do your own taxes, basically run your own business, but with only the shitty parts of it (no potential for growth, bureaucracy, scheduling, negotiating your pay all the…

Hang on a second. Are you honestly saying that you think 350GBP/day is an unreasonably high goal for a contractor?

If my math is right, that works out to about $70/hr (USD), which is well on the low side for a 1 year contract, even assuming you're out in the sticks. That's closer to what you'd expect for a day rate as a salaried employee if you have any experience.

So no, you need to take on board that this is the sort of money you should be making. If you're not (and by assuming that only magical freelancers make that much, but only for a few weeks at a time, it sounds that way), you'd be well served to spend some effort getting your rate up where it belongs.

We'd actually all be better off were you to do so. As long as there are people willing to work for GBP65k/year, there will be companies taking advantage of them. But those same companies will happily pay market (as plenty of us can attest) if they have to.

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#45

Post by aidos »

flurdy wrote: post #23
marklit wrote: post #5

Lots of contracts in London are paying £350 a day. £350 / day * 48 working weeks of the year * 5 days a week = £84,000 / year. £55,498.64 in your pocket after tax. Compare this to ~5 - 10 years of working for peanuts in a startup hoping for an exit. Keep your eye on the clients who agree to short payment terms, forget the dreamers.

48 weeks * 5 days a week is really best case scenario. You have included 4 weeks of holiday, but not sickness, training courses, conferences, company admin, next contract sales and worst of all bench time between contracts. My calculation are you are down to 45 weeks after 5 weeks holiday and UK bank holidays. Add 5 days for illness, 7 days for courses and conferences, 1 day a month for admin, 3 days every 6 months f…

Contracting doesn't pay as much as freelancing. Lots of people contract fulltime at companies and ignore the IR35 issues (even though they shouldn't) for around £350/day.

Freelancing is different. You have to deal with all of the issues you mention above, cost of sales etc (though, get yourself an accountant, seriously) but the reward is higher. You're doing things at your own pace and if you're good you can really focus to make solid profit.

Contracting is just a regular hourly wage (and as you rightly point out, not always as good as it looks on the tin).

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#46

Post by martinced »

chrisbennet wrote: post #19

"You'd be crazy to have me work on this for a few months for 50% equity when you could just spend 6-12 months yourself learning to code and doing it yourself and have 100% equity. Of course, if you don't think it is worth spending a few months of your own time why should I take a chance on it?"

"Teach yourself programming in ten years" by Peter Norvig for a hard cold reality check:

   http://norvig.com/21-days.html
Some may do impressive things in a bit less than that but I wouldn't trust anyone with less than a few years of programming (or at least education related to programming).

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#47

Post by csgavino »

badatmath wrote: post #42
jrogers65 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6-12 months learning how to code? Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. It takes years to reach a reasonable level of competence in software development and on the order of a decade to master it. The problem with taking people's word on how much work they do when they are involved in marketing and the so…

Novice with 7 months of learning here. Quit my strategy consulting job to focus full time on learning to code, and am currently working on this project, built in Rails, on Heroku (it's all in Japanese, but the concept is similar to Hacker News/Reddit) http://www.daidake.com Is this a bad idea? Would like to hear your thoughts. I have to admit I do feel like I'm in a little bit over my head, in that once/if I start ge…

Good job on learning how to program and actually releasing something! Your site looks okay but it is kinda slow.

I suggest reading up on memcached (since you're using heroku).

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#49

Post by martinced »

marklit wrote: post #5

Lots of contracts in London are paying £350 a day. £350 / day * 48 working weeks of the year * 5 days a week = £84,000 / year. £55,498.64 in your pocket after tax. Compare this to ~5 - 10 years of working for peanuts in a startup hoping for an exit. Keep your eye on the clients who agree to short payment terms, forget the dreamers.

"Keep your eye on the clients who agree to short payment terms, forget the dreamers."

OK but then also maybe forget HN and entrepreneurship?

Re: Why Developers Don't Want to Work on Your Idea (2011)

#50

Post by sebcat »

badatmath wrote: post #42
jrogers65 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6-12 months learning how to code? Good luck building a business on top of software written by a junior-level programmer. Even better luck expanding and scaling it if/when the time comes. It takes years to reach a reasonable level of competence in software development and on the order of a decade to master it. The problem with taking people's word on how much work they do when they are involved in marketing and the so…

Novice with 7 months of learning here. Quit my strategy consulting job to focus full time on learning to code, and am currently working on this project, built in Rails, on Heroku (it's all in Japanese, but the concept is similar to Hacker News/Reddit) http://www.daidake.com Is this a bad idea? Would like to hear your thoughts. I have to admit I do feel like I'm in a little bit over my head, in that once/if I start ge…

> is this a bad idea? Well, what do you bring to the table? Do Japanese people read HN or reddit, or are they hindered by the language barrier? If they are, then it's not.

Damn, ideas are never bad. As long as you do stuff, it's all good.

Post reply on HN