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Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

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Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#61
post #28
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>'Maladaptive neuronal connections' That's a mouthful, and just as obscure for most people. Might as well go with "Sarkana" - it's easier to pronounce. Besides, the script worked well for a few thousand years now, there is hardly a reason to change it now. But yeah, if you're scientifically inclined and the ancient Indian mythology is rubbing you the wrong way, you can safely skip it, and it still makes perfect sense…

(following up on uberuberuber's reply) > Besides, the script worked well for a few thousand years now, there is hardly a reason to change it now. Imo, that is a big fallacy. I believe religious beliefs can no longer provide sound ground for adjustment in today's world. It is harmful to have within your semantic environment both "spiritual" factors such as the notion of "aetheric body", and scientific factors such as…

> It is harmful to have within your semantic environment both "spiritual" factors… and scientific factors such as the notion of "space-time" (which currently shape our civilisation). This is because the two belong to inconsistent sets, so they conflict.

Harmful to what? Prove it—and not from first principles, because the human mind seems to have no trouble at all with combining arbitrary and contradictory concepts into one big mushy whole. Ask any non-programmer for software requirements, or really anybody why they did anything and not something else.

The only tangible harm is that it annoys people who attempt to apply logical reasoning to every situation and interaction, even where other human faculties are obviously more appropriate.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#62

I've been to a 10 day Vipassana retreat. I appreciate people say it gave them great benefits, but it did not sit well with me, so I share my story in the interests of balance. At first, things were fine. I adjusted to the silence quickly enough, the food was simple but nutritious, and didn't mind the meditation (other than the pain in my legs and back, but my request to sit on the back wall was granted). However, mid…

Reading others' experiences and yours is just reinforcing my notion that for any given idea there will be a school of thought that takes that idea to the absolute extreme. If the school of thought becomes famous you'll eventually wind up with a group of people boosting it simply out of some kind of sense of taste.

I am not a Buddhist, but I have some trouble imagining that what the Buddha intended to create was something for people to get all aspirational about acquiring, even if it is a skill rather than a material possession. I also think most things, pushed to the extreme, tend to become their own opposite.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#63
I went to one of these with a decade of moderate meditation under my belt and just over a year of 'wanting to'.

I got extremely sick from a combination of rhinovirus and detox (I had been smoking regularly); and left on the 5th full day.

My experiences with meditation had been primarily pleasant. I learned accidentally following rote instructions at 18; and meditated regularly on and off (mostly off as years went by) until I heard about this course (which is free, including room and board), and it took just over a year until I sorted out the opportunity to go.

I honestly feel/felt scared/respectful of the whole endeavor. Meditation is what it would be like to learn to breathe underwater, if it were possible.

Our bodies know intrinsically we can't breathe water in; so when you are under water you don't breathe. When oxygen levels are high its not really a thought, but even with oxygen levels are low there is an inherent aversion to sucking/breathing in the water.

Meditation is like that, in the sense our commitment to sit for ~60 minus (or 10 hours a day) is akin to committing to keep our heads under water. The difference is with meditation, the only thing limiting how long you can sit is your will.

By sitting and not reacting to our thoughts we are eventually shown this "layer" where we are unconsciously "holding our breath" in the same way we do when we are under water with high levels of oxygen. Meditation effectively "reduces the oxygen" thereby increasing the signal on the "i need oxygen" circuit, so in the same way that being under water when oxygen is running low, what was previously so subtle as to not be noticed consciously there is now this new, apparent phenomena we can't help but be made aware of.

This is the mechanism, in my estimation, that meditation gives its benefit. Essentially the 'secret' learned while meditation is that "you can breathe underwater" and all this aversion you were feeling was a total waste of energy; energy you didn't even now you were expending.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#65
post #44

I completed my 4th course in December. Vipassana meditation is the single greatest human experience that I know of. The experience of "wisdom arising by objectively observing sensations without reaction" is easily the most profound experience I have ever had and feels like a miracle every time it happens. The answers we are all looking for to fulfill ourselves and become truly happy certainly are inside of us. We jus…

Where can I take this course? I live in the Bay Area.

The Insight Meditation Center, a long-time buddhist group, recently acquired and opened a new retreat center in Scotts Valley. See http://www.insightretreatcenter.org/

The meditation methods used there would be the same as the above.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#66
DISCLAIMER: This post focuses more on the Goenka courses than Vipassana meditation per se.

I'm quite surprised that no dissenting opinion has yet surfaced on the topic of Goenka's courses. Most of the commentor's opinions here seem over-enthusiastic, describing the Goenka retreat as 'the best thing in [their] lives'. To me, this is a serious warning sign.

I have attended a 10-day retreat, which ended prematurely (on the evening of the 8th day) because of my refusal to watch the evening lectures. While I must agree with the commentors' positive opinions on the meditative experience, I feel compelled to inform any potential attendees that despite claims of 'scientific rationality', the Goenka group is a regular religious sect.

When the course begins, the Vipassana technique is presented as an objective tool to achieve insight into the workings of one's own mind and emotions. Mr. Goenka presents himself as someone who merely happened to learn of the technique and is now passing it on.

As the days progress, the scarce sleep and food schedule begins to take its toll on the participants' bullshit detectors, and subtle religious notions are slipped into the agenda. These include:

* The primacy of Vipassana over other religions * The unreasonableness of other religions * The unquestioned truth of reincarnation * The fact that our bodies are made up of some kind of vibrations

I remember finally 'snapping out of it' when Goenka started talking about bubble chambers( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_chamber ) and the depressed scientist who made them. My bullshit detector went on overdrive and I thought about all the things that had been said up to that point during Goenka's video lectures and his taped talks. I realized that I had been subtly manipulated into accepting certain ontological truths, such as the above. These were not things I would have readily accepted coming to the retreat.

I also realized I had been planning to continue with Vipassana practice and make it part of my life. Maybe help organize retreats in my home country. Become part of this 'wonderful' movement headed by Mr. Goenka. This was definitely not something I had in mind when I signed up for the course.

I know I will not convince anyone who is already engaged with the Goenka group to rethink how they got involved, but I would like to sincerely warn anyone who is considering attending:

You will not be alone with your thoughts and emotions during these ten days. You will be accompanied by THE RECORDED VOICE OF GOENKA, for 2-3 hours of each and every day. Every meditation will start with his talks and chants, every meditation will end with his talks and chants. From what I understand, but have obviously not experienced firsthand, the grueling 9-day course ends with a Love-bomb (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing). I believe these 'free' courses are set up to lure susceptible people into the organization.

Please look into some critical views on any religious group before engaging with one. On the internet, smears abound, but you may also find some grounded critique that may shine light on the structure and purpose of the organization.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#68
post #28
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>'Maladaptive neuronal connections' That's a mouthful, and just as obscure for most people. Might as well go with "Sarkana" - it's easier to pronounce. Besides, the script worked well for a few thousand years now, there is hardly a reason to change it now. But yeah, if you're scientifically inclined and the ancient Indian mythology is rubbing you the wrong way, you can safely skip it, and it still makes perfect sense…

(following up on uberuberuber's reply) > Besides, the script worked well for a few thousand years now, there is hardly a reason to change it now. Imo, that is a big fallacy. I believe religious beliefs can no longer provide sound ground for adjustment in today's world. It is harmful to have within your semantic environment both "spiritual" factors such as the notion of "aetheric body", and scientific factors such as…

> Imo, that is a big fallacy. I believe religious beliefs can no longer provide sound ground for adjustment in today's world.

The Buddha himself rejected to answer metaphysical questions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_unanswerable_questions

Buddhism puts the emphasis on direct experience of impermanence and how it leads to suffering.

Apart from that, most people have not trouble believing in contrasting theories or living by contrasting morals ;).

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#69

I completed my first 10 day Vipassana course recently, and genuinely believe that a slightly modified version of the course should be an essential component of any person’s psychological maturation/development. The course I did was the ‘Goenka course’ (dhamma.org), and I would recommend it to anyone interested in learning more about meditation. It is free of charge to attend, and you can actually only donate to the o…

(I also practice meditation, although a different system.) To me, it seems like 10 days can barely begin cracking the ice, so to speak. I think even more powerful results would be achieved by removing yourself from your normal environment for 10 days (just go somewhere else and do something unusual), and then go and do the 10 day meditation boot camp. But of course, very few people can afford the luxury of spending s…

To me, it seems like 10 days can barely begin cracking the ice, so to speak. [...] But of course, very few people can afford the luxury of spending so much time away from work, family, etc.

I have an acquaintance who meditated in the East for some years. He told me that one of the biggest disappointments was that monks who spent years of their life meditating, could be very arrogant and selfish.

I also know of persons who meditate regularly, but never or rarely attended retreats, who seemed very enlightened.

Daily life and retreat may be a false dichotomy, I think the latter group of people were able to see every single moment of life as practice.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#70
post #56
post #12

My take on Vipassana, in a nutshell (having gone through one 10-day course): An experience gets memorized based on its emotional strength, so, for example, a strong negative experience (a trauma) will get memorized quite well. Later on, in a sort-of realed situation one gets to recall and relive such stored experience - the brain sort of "believes" it's important to remember. If the re-living is also strongly emotion…

This is a great description of what happens, but only tells part of the story. Besides dissolving bad memories Vipassana also has an effect on the depth of your consciousness. Compare this with the upgrading of computer screens from 800 x 600 to the 1920 x 1200 resolution sported by many of them today. Everything is more detailed, more vivid. So is the effect of Vipassana: emotions are more "real" and makes the feeli…

We know the api (at least the one which changes the mind resolution when called) pretty well thanks to Albert Hofmann. It's a pitty we can't use it freely and have to resort to much more time consuming open source alternatives...
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